Sovereignty Implies What?

[Rey Reynoso]

I know that many folk have different views of God's sovereignty so here's the question: For God to be sovereign what must definitely remain in place to enforce that concept?

PLEASE NOTE: These are examples of what I'm looking for in the phrasing--not the specific examples:
For example: God can only be sovereign if every single action and inaction is controlled.
or
For example: God is sovereign as long as He created everything and left.
or
For example: God is sovereign as long as He has the overuling decision in any given thing.

*post edited for clarification.

[SweetSomber]

I'd say that God is sovereign as long as He maintains the ability to have the overruling decision and to control every action and inaction. God reigns as long as He has the ability to cause everything to go just as He likes it.

I don't necessarily believe that God chooses to control people's desires, actions, and inactions, but for Him to be sovereign, He would have that ability.

[Jason Ingersoll]

Jill,

You can't fit everything into the box of one definition. Furthermoe, God cannot be fully defined by man made terms.

[Rey Reynoso]

You can't fit everything into the box of one definition. Furthermoe, God cannot be fully defined by man made terms.

Fully doesn't mean you don't try: it means you know that there will necessarily be limitations in our understanding.

[Jack]

Rey. A fouth example: The Sovereign God determined, before the creation, EVERYTHING which would come to pass, and is working, in time, to Make it happen, Exactly as He had predetermined, without fail.

Your second example, As you no doubt, already know, the God who created and then departed, is the Deistic view.

Your third example: He has the over-ruling decision... He Made the over-ruling decision, before the foundation of the world,
According to my understanding of Scripture. Grace to all. Jack

[Rey Reynoso]

Jack, those weren't examples of what I believe those are examples of what I'm looking for when a person defines what Sovereignty necessitates to be sovereignty. Like your 4th that you listed would be:

Sovereignty entails determining, before the creation, EVERYTHING which would come to pass, and is working, in time, to Make it happen, Exactly as planned--no deviation.

I thought that's what the 1st example entailed, but I think you know what I'm saying.

[James Gibbons]

If God says He is sovereign, then He is.

God’s sovereignty is a description of His relationship with His creation. He made the rules. He has absolute prerogative to enforce them, not enforce them, selectively enforce them, suspend them, cancel them, or change them. Anyone who thinks there is ever a situation in which God is not in control doesn’t know God.

My big sister, the seminarian puts it this way, “God’s God. He can do what He wants.”

[Rey Reynoso]

God’s sovereignty is a description of His relationship with His creation. He made the rules. He has absolute prerogative to enforce them, not enforce them, selectively enforce them, suspend them, cancel them, or change them. Anyone who thinks there is ever a situation in which God is not in control doesn’t know God.

So James, what I'm reading here is that Sovereignty entails the prerogative and power to enforce the rules which the Sovereign has put in place. Is that accurate?

[Jason Ingersoll]

Rey,

I don't disagree. We do try to define God, and that's fine. The problem is when we start to think that God ends at the limits of our definitions.

[James Gibbons]

So James, what I'm reading here is that Sovereignty entails the prerogative and power to enforce the rules which the Sovereign has put in place. Is that accurate?

Yeah. I guess so. Wouldn’t stake my life on this being the sum of what I think about the topic. But that pretty much summarizes it. Of course, the defining attribute of God is that “God is love.” That occupies a lot more of my thoughts.

That He is sovereign is completely dependent on His having a creation over which to be sovereign. It’s a temporary state.

[Jack]

Rey, I think I understand what you are saying and I'm not disagreeing with you. You posted 3 examples and I know that you didn't indicate which view you prefer. You put this up for "irenic" discussion, and not to prove a point. I, as you fully recognize, have a difficult time speaking Irenically. I'm working on it, though. (See the discussion I started on "out of body" experiences.) I think that was "irenic", but doubt I can keep it that way.
BTW: your third example "suggests" That God is deciding and then ruling, as we go along, in time. This would be the "Open" or "Processianist" view, as I understand it.
I have not detected any disagreement between any of the respondees, to this time.
Keep up the Good work. Grace and Peace to you. Jack

[Rey Reynoso]

I refuse to believe that with so many openly professing Calvinists and Arminians on this board--not to mention Orthodox and Catholics--that these are the only considerations of what does Sovereignty necessitate to remain Sovereign!

[Barrett Young]

Sovereignty to me simplistically means that my leash is in his yard. He determined the yard and staked the leash within it. I get to go within the boundaries of the leash. To not be sovereign would mean that God's leash is staked in my yard.

Of course I have deeper thoughts than that, but I'll leave it at that for now.