The Problem of Pain and Evil: Why?

[Rey Reynoso]

I know this will eventually come up but I figured I would get a jump start on it. If God is Good why does He allow evil? If God is good why does He allow suffering at the level where it isn't directly related to sin? As in the suffering of sickness or perhaps the suffering inflicted between animals?

[Apolojedi (Daniel Eaton)]

Could it be that a lot of the things we think of as "evil" are not evil at all, but us just not liking the fact that we are not getting a desired outcome? How many times have we asked God why He lets someone suffer through an illness, yet if He takes them home suddenly, we question that as well and blame Him for not letting them stick around so we can say goodbye or something. In either case, we blame Him for us not getting what we want without ever considering that we don't see the whole picture and we are ultimately deciding what we think is the proper outcome of events and, in a lack of faith, believing that God got it wrong.

At other times, it isn't "evil" that God has allowed/caused, but us reaping what we have sowed. We blame God for "evil" when it isn't anything more than the consequences of our own sin.

As far as "suffering inflicted between animals", I don't give animals anthropomorphic feelings and rights. Does the Zebra suffer pain when taken down by a pride of lions? Of course. But is it not equally "evil" to let the lions and their cubs starve?

Ultimately, I believe a lot of the "problem of evil" comes down to perspective.
Daniel
D.

[Lisa Robinson]

Well a few examples come to mind of God allowing suffering. First, I reminded of Deut 8 where God tells the children of Israel that He allowed them to go hungry to test what was in their heart and so they would understand who exactly was their source. Then, I'm reminded of the blind man that was brought before Jesus and the Pharisees asked who has sinned because of the man's condition. But Jesus replied it was done so God could be glorified. Then there was Job just because the devil tried to get in God's face and bring some accusations.

I don't fully understand why God allows suffering, but I do believe that without it, we would not experience the fullness, glory or sufficiency of God to the extent that He desires. That is not an easy sell for folks that have been on the receiving end of loss or suffering. But in the end, it is God's providence that will reign and somehow through these events, I think He wants us to remember that even when we don't understand it.

[D. Iohan Fausten]

Apolojedi (Daniel Eaton) said:

Could it be that a lot of the things we think of as "evil" are not evil at all, but us just not liking the fact that we are not getting a desired outcome? ... Ultimately, I believe a lot of the "problem of evil" comes down to perspective.

There are days when I wonder if you're not on my side of the playground.

[Rey Reynoso]

So does the evil in regards to an animal come about when its a human doing slaughtering the thing for fun because of the intellect of the human? In other words, watching a chimp systematically pull the legs off a cat doesn't mean anything whereas if a human was doing the same it would be evil?

[Apolojedi (Daniel Eaton)]

bishop said:

There are days when I wonder if you're not on my side of the playground.

I'm on lots of sides. LOL I think to me it comes down to having a lot more faith in my own ability to have it wrong and my own ignorance and recognizing my very, very limited picture of things than in any belief that I have it all figured out and the Creator just doesn't "get it". I think the chances are much better that He has a better perspective of things, has a lot more wisdom, and ultimately makes better choices. So, I just have to have faith in Him that He is looking out for me better than I ever could. Doesn't make it easy. Especially with what I am dealing with right now. But it is the only thing that brings peace. Daniel
D.

[Apolojedi (Daniel Eaton)]

Rey Reynoso said:

So does the evil in regards to an animal come about when its a human doing slaughtering the thing for fun because of the intellect of the human? In other words, watching a chimp systematically pull the legs off a cat doesn't mean anything whereas if a human was doing the same it would be evil?

I think evil exists. No question about it. But I think evil is in the intent of the action. If I pull an animal's leg off to save it's life, that is one thing. If I'm just cruel and want to cause pain, that is another. I don't think most animals hurt each other for entertainment. It is usually done for survival. Daniel

[JL Vaughn]

Daniel,

Most carnivores kill for entertainment. We just like our myths.

Most rodents die of starvation.

Suffering is good for you. No matter how much you hate to do it.

God just doesn't seem to be concerned with a lot of things we are concerned with. His ways are not our ways.

Blessings.

[Leslie Jebaraj]

Something to linger over!

Apolojedi (Daniel Eaton) said:

Could it be that a lot of the things we think of as "evil" are not evil at all, but us just not liking the fact that we are not getting a desired outcome? How many times have we asked God why He lets someone suffer through an illness, yet if He takes them home suddenly, we question that as well and blame Him for not letting them stick around so we can say goodbye or something. In either case, we blame Him for us not getting what we want without ever considering that we don't see the whole picture and we are ultimately deciding what we think is the proper outcome of events and, in a lack of faith, believing that God got it wrong.

At other times, it isn't "evil" that God has allowed/caused, but us reaping what we have sowed. We blame God for "evil" when it isn't anything more than the consequences of our own sin.

As far as "suffering inflicted between animals", I don't give animals anthropomorphic feelings and rights. Does the Zebra suffer pain when taken down by a pride of lions? Of course. But is it not equally "evil" to let the lions and their cubs starve?

Ultimately, I believe a lot of the "problem of evil" comes down to perspective.
Daniel
D.

[Leslie Jebaraj]

Personally, I believe that God does not allow evil ... He wills it. In other words, all the evil in the world happens, because God in some sense wills it, but uses secondary causes as instruments behind the action.

[Rey Reynoso]

Is this what you tell the folk in Auschwitz? Or the mother who's holding the child dying with cancer? Or the folk in India after the Tsunami? Is this what God would want people hear?


Leslie Jebaraj said:

Personally, I believe that God does not allow evil ... He wills it. In other words, all the evil in the world happens, because God in some sense wills it, but uses secondary causes as instruments behind the action.

[Leslie Jebaraj]

Are you suggesting that God allows evil, not able to stop it?

Rey Reynoso said:

Is this what you tell the folk in Auschwitz? Or the mother who's holding the child dying with cancer? Or the folk in India after the Tsunami? Is this what God would want people hear?


Leslie Jebaraj said:

Personally, I believe that God does not allow evil ... He wills it. In other words, all the evil in the world happens, because God in some sense wills it, but uses secondary causes as instruments behind the action.

[Rey Reynoso]

I'm not suggesting anything, only asking questions and hitting them hard like a person would properly bring them up. Their complaint might be that too often we get a theological disconnect from the very real, very dire problem of pain and evil. Our theology should have level application across every sphere if we really believe it.

We should be able to go to the furnaces of Auschwitz, look at the women with shaved head, the children walking through the falling ash and tell them a message. Leslie, ill yours be "This is God's will for your life. He did not merely allow it, it was His hearts desire that you go to the fire"?

The poor, trying to find a morsel of bread from the trash, will you be able to go up to them and their starving children and say "This is not only allowed--but God's heart desire, His ultimate hope was for your life."?

Leslie Jebaraj said:

Are you suggesting that God allows evil, not able to stop it?

Rey Reynoso said:

Is this what you tell the folk in Auschwitz? Or the mother who's holding the child dying with cancer? Or the folk in India after the Tsunami? Is this what God would want people hear?


Leslie Jebaraj said:

Personally, I believe that God does not allow evil ... He wills it. In other words, all the evil in the world happens, because God in some sense wills it, but uses secondary causes as instruments behind the action.