Salvific issues?

[Nicole]

I know that "we" throw around terms like heretic, and false teacher and such when someone adheres to a doctrine different than ours - but I wonder, what does the Bible teach about salvific issues? How much doctrine can you get wrong, and still be saved? Is there a difference between the thief on the cross, who was saved with no more doctrine than "You are the Christ" and those who have more knowledge before them, yet pick and choose what they believe?

[James Gibbons]

Vince said:

Yes agreed, I should have differentiated between general call and effectual call.
All are called. My references where the order of salvation in a believers life...

I’ve always been confused by this issue…general/effectual call. Are both going on all the time. Or was the general call finished before the effectual call is given?

[James Gibbons]

Rom. 8:29–30
“For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.”

Election: God elects us to be His before the foundations of the world

Vince, why would you quote a verse in support of the doctrine of election that does not contain the word “election?” Do you contend that election, foreknowledge, and predestination are the same thing? If so, why are there three words?

[James Gibbons]

Past
Ephesians 2:8
“For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God.”

I am not a Greek scholar, so the answer may be obvious. But why does one assume that the antecedent of “that” is “faith,” when it could just as easily be “grace”, the whole thought “you have been saved,” or the whole thought that precedes the semi-colon: “For by grace you have been saved through faith.” Just asking?

[Ratatösk]

Hey Robert. Elijah...Paul. Hmmmm. Maybe if I squint ......Yes, a definite resemblance.

[Vince]

Re; Vince, why would you quote a verse in support of the doctrine of election that does not contain the word “election?” Do you contend that election, foreknowledge, and predestination are the same thing? If so, why are there three words?

Rom. 8:29–30
“For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.”

Election: God elects us to be His before the foundations of the world

I believe that verse speaks to election in relation to conformity with Christ.
The whole council of God speaks to His purpose and will before the foundations of the world, God know beforehand "foreknowledge", God decided beforehand "predestined" all being part of Election "the process of electing"

Verses on Election of the Saints

a. Of God. 1Th 1:4; Tit 1:1.
b. By Christ. Joh 13:18; 15:16.
c. In Christ. Eph 1:4.
d. Personal. Mt 20:16; Joh 6:44; Ac 22:14; 2Jo 1:13.
e. According to the purpose of God. Ro 9:11; Eph 1:11.
f. According to the foreknowledge of God. Ro 8:29; 1Pe 1:2.
g. Eternal. Eph 1:4.
h. Sovereign. Ro 9:15,16; 1Co 1:27; Eph 1:11.
i. Irrespective of merit. Ro 9:11.
j. Of grace. Ro 11:5.
k. Recorded in heaven. Lu 10:20.
l. For the glory of God. Eph 1:6.
m. Through faith. 2Th 2:13.
n. Through sanctification of the Spirit. 1Pe 1:2.
o. To adoption. Eph 1:5.
p. To salvation. 2Th 2:13.
q. To conformity with Christ. Ro 8:29.
r. To good works. Eph 2:10.
s. To spiritual warfare. 2Ti 2:4.
t. To eternal glory. Ro 9:23.

Torrey, R. (1995, c1897). The new topical text book : A scriptural text book for the use of ministers, teachers, and all Christian workers. Oak Harbor, WA: Logos research Systems, Inc.

[James Gibbons]

Election: God elects us to be His before the foundations of the world

Vince, who do you mean by “us?”

[Vince]

I would be referring to those whom have experienced the new birth in Christ and have been regenerated by the Holy Spirit .

[Rey Reynoso]

Are we saying that you have to get election right to be saved?

[James Gibbons]

Vince said:

I would be referring to those whom have experienced the new birth in Christ and have been regenerated by the Holy Spirit .

The Church?

[Vince]

The church "the whole body of Christians" is the same thing.

No you don't have to understand the doctrine of election to be saved.
You have to be Born Again :)

[James Gibbons]

You have to be Born Again :)

We definitely agree on this one!

[Vince]

That's the bottom line, we might not all agree on how that happens as long as we all agree its not by works on our part. :)