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ELECTION: DID GOD CHOOSE ME, OR DID I CHOOSE HIM?

Did God elect me before the foundation of the world, based upon His fore-knowledge of my faith and/or works, Or upon His good pleasure, without consideration of my faith or works? Have at it!

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Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Rey Reynoso on July 15, 2008 at 7:53pm: Jack said:
Rey; Please proceed!
Rey Reynoso said:
Neither. They're both wrong.

God chose Christ. He is, as Israel of Old was to be, as the First Adam should've been, The Son of God. Christ is the culmination of all Creation, God's proper vice-gerent if I can use that word of the Creator. Christ, who was at the beginning, chose to do this and knowingly did it by going through the Cross to satisfy God's just demand and to glorify God. If Christ so willed it, He could've wiped out creation before the cross, not saved anyone and God would've remained Just, creation would've remain culminated in Him--but the Scriptures would not have been fulfilled.

So God elected Christ. Everything else is elect only on account of being hidden in Him. I'd have to unpack that over a long drawn out argument but this is the main thrust.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by SweetSomber on July 15, 2008 at 8:16pm: Interesting answer Rey, I can honestly say that I haven't heard that one before. :); ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Jack on July 15, 2008 at 8:22pm: Rey; Rom 8:28 "And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to THEM WHO are called according to His purpose, 29 For WHOM He did foreknow, He also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the first-born among many brethren. 30 Moreover, WHOM he did predestinate, THEM He also called: and WHOM He called, THEM He also justified: and WHOM He justified, THEM He also glorified." I'm not denying that Christ was elect, but rather, your round-about way of saying thay WE BECAME elect when we believed on (or we chose) Christ.
Love to all, Jack

Rey Reynoso said:
Jack said:
Rey; Please proceed!
Rey Reynoso said:
Neither. They're both wrong.

God chose Christ. He is, as Israel of Old was to be, as the First Adam should've been, The Son of God. Christ is the culmination of all Creation, God's proper vice-gerent if I can use that word of the Creator. Christ, who was at the beginning, chose to do this and knowingly did it by going through the Cross to satisfy God's just demand and to glorify God. If Christ so willed it, He could've wiped out creation before the cross, not saved anyone and God would've remained Just, creation would've remain culminated in Him--but the Scriptures would not have been fulfilled.

So God elected Christ. Everything else is elect only on account of being hidden in Him. I'd have to unpack that over a long drawn out argument but this is the main thrust.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Jack on July 15, 2008 at 9:46pm: Robert; Right ON! Bro!
Robert Booth said:
Jack
Greetings,

you know sumptin'. God wants you to believe what God has told you, and No One can take that away from'ya.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Jack on July 15, 2008 at 9:49pm: SweetSomber; I heard that 44 years ago, and immediately saw too many contradictions. (IMHO) Jack
SweetSomber said:
Interesting answer Rey, I can honestly say that I haven't heard that one before. :); ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by JL Vaughn on July 15, 2008 at 9:52pm: Jack,

In answer to your title question, Yes!

Blessings.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Rayner Markley on July 15, 2008 at 9:53pm: Jack, I'm not sure what the question is. The title asks who chose whom, but the following sentences seem to ask whether God chose based on foreknowledge or based randomly on a whim.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Jack on July 15, 2008 at 10:19pm: Rayner; Nothing God does is random or based upon a whim! I will ask the questions in different words: Did God elect CHOOSE individuals for salvation, based upon His prior knowledge of their Faith/ works/decisions, or Did God choose Individuals according to His GOOD PLEASURE (not being forced or obligated)) and according to His purpose, and then in time, effectually call those chosen individuals to Christ?
I believe that Romans 8:28-30 answers that question.
Most of these discussions that we're having, go right back to our foundational understanding of God! Is He Omnipotent? Is He Omnicient? The OMNI prefix means ALL, with no limitations or exceptions! Bless you all. Jack

Rayner Markley said:
Jack, I'm not sure what the question is. The title asks who chose whom, but the following sentences seem to ask whether God chose based on foreknowledge or based randomly on a whim.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Arthur Thompson on July 15, 2008 at 10:21pm: Raquel said:
Arthur,
The visual picture in my head for that is AWESOME. Definite beard pulling. I wonder if Calvin takes his hat off when he's ready to rumble? Or maybe they both just throw off their robes (John with his fuzzy necked ones and Jacobus with his weird paper collar thingy)?

How did I for get "Let's get ready to Ruuuumble!"

Beard pullin'... no doubt. Don't know about the hat.

I love you sister, you make me laugh. And your thought process is awesome.

Blessings,
Art; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Gina on July 15, 2008 at 10:46pm: Jack: Presumably your wife did not make your head spin so much that you were comatose and not able to say "I do."

God acts synergistically with His creation, not deterministically. He's not the god of the deists, acting externally on us as though we were alien to Him. He brings about His will alongside the free will of His rational creatures, not overrunning it.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Jack on July 15, 2008 at 10:55pm: Robert; I must add, in love, that God does not tell you one truth and then Tell me a contradictory truth. Our pre-suppositions and understanding or lack thereof, stand between our total agreement. It is our duty, in love, to try to lead our brethren into better understanding of God and His purposes. Which is the purpose of all our discussions, here, agreed? To prove myself right,or how brilliant I am, is a fleshly and futile endeavor. Agreement in truth, not compromise, Glorifies our worthy God! Christ's love to you and all on the site! Jack

understanding.

Robert Booth said:
Jack
Greetings,

you know sumptin'. God wants you to believe what God has told you, and No One can take that away from'ya.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Jack on July 15, 2008 at 11:21pm: Gina; I think God brings our free-will alongside His Sovereign will! Love you sister! Jack
Oh yes! I remember breaking out in a cold sweat at the altar, thinking: "What am I doing, here?" Its turned out to be a VERY GOOD decision for me!

Gina Mosko said:
Jack: Presumably your wife did not make your head spin so much that you were comatose and not able to say "I do."

God acts synergistically with His creation, not deterministically. He's not the god of the deists, acting externally on us as though we were alien to Him. He brings about His will alongside the free will of His rational creatures, not overrunning it.; ▶ Reply to This