What are the proper motivations for war?

[Daniel]

Maybe a better questions is *ARE* there proper motivations for war. If so, what are they? Is a war "ungodly" or "unchristian" if there are multiple motivations and some of them are less than honorable? As Christians, should we be conscientious objectors to all war, or should we obey the authorities over us in all things? Is this a political issue, or a theological one? Or is it both? What are your thoughts?

Specifically, what about Iraq? Is freeing a country of oppressed citizens a worthy/Godly cause? Is it worthy/Godly to "take out" a source of terror and a threat to our country? How far can a Christian take defense of country or home?

[Daniel]

Aaron C. Rathburn said:

In Creation, only green plants were given as food- it was only later that animals could be killed to be eaten. In the Consummation, the lion will lie down with the lamb.

I disagree with the assumptions of that point, but that's another topic! It does though bring up a good point. I wonder if it is this recent belief in no death, pain, or suffering of any kind prior to the fall that influences a belief in the idea that God's intention and ideal plan was/is a pain-free, death-free utopia and that we should work to that end. In other words, I wonder if you would find more people leaning towards pacifism in the young-earth creationsists than you would the old-earth creationists, theistic evolutionists, and Darwinists? Hmmmm....

[Rey Reynoso]

I've stated elsewhere that there may be temporally justifiable reasons by the governing powers for participating or launching a war but I personally don't think that a Christian should stand behind any side of a war and claim the cause Biblical and God-sanctioned.

Yes in one very real providential sense God has both mandated and allowed the war but sometimes war is a judgment on a specific nation with the result of judgment upon the nation launching the war (compare Biblical references to Assyria and Babylon).

But we have to take extreme care saying that attacking another country is Godly because of X finite-justified reason. The only reason a war is Godly is if God Himself mandates it, and as I stated, even then he sometimes judges the nations who he's used as the war-tool. This isn't to say that we should be pacifists but it is to say that the powers that are established are the ones who have been given the power to wield the military power of any given country. As Christians we wind up submitting to the authorities with any given consequence (I've mentioned elsewhere what I exactly mean by that).

[Daniel]

Rey Reynoso said:

I personally don't think that a Christian should stand behind any side of a war and claim the cause Biblical and God-sanctioned.

I don't have a problem with the "stand behind" part. I *do* have a problem with a claim that a war is "God-sanctioned" though. I think we can hope and pray that a war is Biblical. I think it is possible for God to use war - even in today's "dispensation" or "age". But I don't want some president pretending to be a prophet and saying God is leading the charge. D.

[Rey Reynoso]

I'd go as far as saying God is using every war though from very different reasons than what most folk think. For example (and absurdly overly simplified) a crusade would be called God Sanctioned and Holy because it was sparked by X group who see themselves on God's side. But God might not be using it for that reason at all. He might have sanctioned it to judge the self-proclaimed righteous group. He may have some purpose down the course of time that uses the crusade as a motivating referent and its hard to tell because He works at a completely timescale.

That's not to say that Christians should go "Yay! War!" but rather "God will work all things to good."


Apolojedi (Daniel Eaton) said:

Rey Reynoso said:

I personally don't think that a Christian should stand behind any side of a war and claim the cause Biblical and God-sanctioned.

I don't have a problem with the "stand behind" part. I *do* have a problem with a claim that a war is "God-sanctioned" though. I think we can hope and pray that a war is Biblical. I think it is possible for God to use war - even in today's "dispensation" or "age". But I don't want some president pretending to be a prophet and saying God is leading the charge. D.

[Theophilus]

To Apolojedi:
I believe people could be tickled before the Fall, and I believe people could likewise feel pain before the Fall. I think pain can be a good-created warning sign, such as, "don't touch hot things."

Following your thought process, I am also (presently) an old-earth creationist. I only throw that out there to say, I certainly wouldn't fit the perceived pattern that you may have discovered =D.

Simon probably has tuned into a more correlative variable: Jesus' teachings and the New Creation.

Apolojedi said:
"I *do* have a problem with a claim that a war is "God-sanctioned" though. I think we can hope and pray that a war is Biblical. I think it is possible for God to use war - even in today's "dispensation" or "age". But I don't want some president pretending to be a prophet and saying God is leading the charge."

Great point. I would say the same.

Rey Reynoso said:
"I'd go as far as saying God is using every war though from very different reasons than what most folk think....That's not to say that Christians should go "Yay! War!" but rather "God will work all things to good."

Great point. I would say the same.

-ACR

[Daniel]

Simon Ravenscroft said:

I haven't yet (!) heard an argument in support of pacifism from young-earth proponents (or at least not on that basis).

I may be totally off base when I wonder if there is a connection. I don't think someone would be a pacifist *because* they are a young-earth creationists. In other words, there may be a correlation without it being the cause. There is a worldview that is seemingly shared by young-earth creationists. It is the worldview that I think may influence thoughts on war. On the time-line of history, YEC's see a perfect, pain-free, death-free paradise on both ends of the time-line. They see that as God's ideal. All the chaos in the middle is sin or the result of it. But what if they are wrong? What if pain and death existed prior to the fall for millions of years? Would they still look upon pain and death now as being "evil" if they believed it was part of God's plan when He surveyed everything and said "it is good"? I may be wrong, and it would definitely not be the first time, but I think there is a connection here. D.