In Defense of Seeker Friendly Churches

[Apolojedi (Daniel Eaton)]

I wrote a blog on the topic. Thought we could discuss it here. Check it out and come back and comment....

[Char]

Ahh I dunno Rey. Means, means.

I see your point about the segregation from the world and even about the window dressings (in some ways I think we can see the work of glory theologians-those who want to ascend to God rather than seeing that he descends to us). However it is not right to therefore say we improperly see the service as important. I think as Christians, we instinctively know it is important.

He not just has entered, but does and is reigning already in his Church. This is why the meeting is important. We aren't just declaring his death and resurrection there, he is doing it himself. In those things he has instituted (preaching, communion, baptism), he is with us even to the end of the age and by his Spirit binds us to himself in them. The service is a manifestation of his grace. Not that he is not with us at all other times, but these are the means he has given by which we receive the refreshment and sustenance to keep us going and shining out to the world until he returns. Think of it as a needed regular stop on our pilgrimage. Or fuel for our lamps?

[Char]

As for linear thinking, entire big concepts enter my brain fully formed at once and never in words. I have to work out details from the larger concept and then find words for them. It doesn't always work. Because of this I exhibit signs of a speech impediment known as "cluttering". It takes me a long time to write the posts I do here because I puke out all the thoughts and then spend a half an hour trying to put them in a cohesive order.

Yes people do think differently-but I think it is important to note that primarily we all think in a way that tends to sin. If God can (and does) break in to our sinful rebellion which is at enmity with God, surely God can deal with any mode of thinking which is his own creation anyway.

I would have drawn diagrams of ties.

[James Gibbons]

Writing for the whole brain is a huge challenge. For one thing, personal reading/learning styles are mutually exclusive. So, Daniel, if someone stacks the verbal boxes neatly for you, and ties them together with a perfect length of twine, the detail will be maddening to…say…an executive reader, who would actually become angry at all the unique pieces of information, which he would see as an impediment to the conclusion to which he wants to be able to jump…fact, fact, conclusion. Some people only get the picture when you relate it to individuals and relationships—we have a lady in our church who does door-to-door visitation and can write an entire paragraph stringing together whom she visited, who they’re related to, and how she came to know them. Drives me up the wall to read her emails—even though I love her to death. Then, there are the visual/conceptual thinkers…“think of it as wings with wheels”…swooping images that just say it all, unless you don’t get it.

Try writing a user manual for sewing supplies (I actually had to do this once). Some people wanna know that you can make the coolest quilt on the planet with the stuff, some wanna know that it comes in large packages that are great for quilting clubs, some wanna know how convenient it is to store and thread through a sewing machine, and some wanna know that it costs less per yard than the lesser brand.

Cluttering? Hmm.

[H]

Char is probably a global learner, but there are subsets of each type (global diffuse, global actual, etc.) and then you branch off into visual, auditory, intuitive, etc. I've been in middle and high school classrooms as a teaching artist for a number of years and I can tell you, no one processes information in quite the same way, although you can (if you pay attention) see some patterns. It's actually quite intriguing.

You all may be aware of this website, but it contains a number of tests (some silly, some real) that can give you some insight into all of this: www.similarminds.com

There are personality tests, etc. - and I hope no one thinks they're evil; if so, by-pass the site. For the record, I'm an INFJ, as far as it goes.

I write much like Char does - I throw it all out there and then go back and try to fit things into where I think they belong, move passages around, etc., but no matter how much editing I do, my writing is derived from, and depends on, a high degree of imagery.


Anyhoo...
James Gibbons said:

Writing for the whole brain is a huge challenge. For one thing, personal reading/learning styles are mutually exclusive. So, Daniel, if someone stacks the verbal boxes neatly for you, and ties them together with a perfect length of twine, the detail will be maddening to…say…an executive reader, who would actually become angry at all the unique pieces of information, which he would see as an impediment to the conclusion to which he wants to be able to jump…fact, fact, conclusion. Some people only get the picture when you relate it to individuals and relationships—we have a lady in our church who does door-to-door visitation and can write an entire paragraph stringing together whom she visited, who they’re related to, and how she came to know them. Drives me up the wall to read her emails—even though I love her to death. Then, there are the visual/conceptual thinkers…“think of it as wings with wheels”…swooping images that just say it all, unless you don’t get it.

Try writing a user manual for sewing supplies (I actually had to do this once). Some people wanna know that you can make the coolest quilt on the planet with the stuff, some wanna know that it comes in large packages that are great for quilting clubs, some wanna know how convenient it is to store and thread through a sewing machine, and some wanna know that it costs less per yard than the lesser brand.

Cluttering? Hmm.

[James Gibbons]

I’m an INFP.

I know some very awesome INFJs.

I’ll bet Rey is an ENFP. Char, I would guess is an INTP — great style for marketing directors, by the way. Phil, prolly NT. Maybe NTP. I dunno. Daniel seems like an ISFJ, maybe. We have a media coordinator who is ISFJ…she’s awesome.

I love this stuff. Fascinating. Totally hijacked the tread. Sorry Daniel.

[H]

LOL I apologize too but it is fun stuff.

Now I have to go look up INFP's.



James Gibbons said:

I’m an INFP.

I know some very awesome INFJs.

I’ll bet Rey is an ENFP. Char, I would guess is an INTP — great style for marketing directors, by the way. Phil, prolly NT. Maybe NTP. I dunno. Daniel seems like an ISFJ, maybe. We have a media coordinator who is ISFJ…she’s awesome.

I love this stuff. Fascinating. Totally hijacked the tread. Sorry Daniel.

[H]

Not too terribly different from INFJ's, it appears!

[Apolojedi (Daniel Eaton)]

I'm a ISTJ - or so says the test. I don't know if I fully trust it though. What I do now that I am disabled is very different from pre-disability.
D.

[Char]

Yes cluttering. My syntax is frightening. I found this on youtube and had a funny-because-it's-true moment, this is exactly how I write things...Now try to put that into real time speaking, it's a nightmare. I can never say something once and have other people understand it.

I never score the same on those tests. IN always but the other two change depending on my mood. I do think INTP probably comes up most often though.

[H]

You can take multiple, similar tests to see if the results are close (if you're interested). If so, your personality type probably falls somewhere along that particular ISTJ arc, and yes, if your condition resuted in physical changes to your brain, personality changes may have resulted. (Doesn't always happen, but it's possible.)

Off to look up ISTJ's.



Apolojedi (Daniel Eaton) said:

I'm a ISTJ - or so says the test. I don't know if I fully trust it though. What I do now that I am disabled is very different from pre-disability.
D.

[H]

My writing takes the form of large chunks of almost stream-of-consciousness information...I then have to go back and try to "guess" what part of it is going to make the point, then I have to move it around, rearrange it, try to figure out if I am really using the words I want to use. It's not so much difficult as it is awkward, especially if I know I'm writing for someone who isn't going to enjoy one of my flights of fancy.

But that YouTube video was interesting. Is there a known cause for clutter or is it just a particular expressive style?

Char said:

Yes cluttering. My syntax is frightening. I found this on youtube and had a funny-because-it's-true moment, this is exactly how I write things...Now try to put that into real time speaking, it's a nightmare. I can never say something once and have other people understand it.

I never score the same on those tests. IN always but the other two change depending on my mood. I do think INTP probably comes up most often though.

[Rey Reynoso]

I always land differently in the tests. My recent test was ESTP. I've also landed on ENFP, ESTJ and ENTP.

Basically I'm an angry Borg who likes Jedi duels.

So when I write, I read what someone said then pretty much know where I'm going with what I'm saying but have to keep restating what I'm saying in different ways because I know someone will come at me from a specific angle and attack my flank.

In other words, I like to constantly use "in other words". lol

Edit: I also have little patience with what I find dumb. That's harsh but I find that if I'm talking with someone who just isn't engaging what I'm saying or is dropping new meanings on words or refers to textbooks, I quickly shut down and nod my head while in my mind I'm checking off what I have to do later that evening.