irresistible grace

[Raquel]

If God's grace is irresistible then why do we (all of humanity) resist on a daily basis?

[Rey Reynoso]

Phil James said:

Nothing but Crap Bags?

If you decide to ignore that we're made in the image of God or say that the image of God has been blurred or even say that the image of God has been removed or even say only Christ was in the image of God ....

Once again, my problem with a theology that's overlaid on Scripture and like a laser wire mesh burns away everything else. Reality is just much more complex.

[James Gibbons]

Kim said:

James,

I don't think that God made some incapable of recieving (that is the negative that humans are always irresistably drawn to :) ) God made some of us capable to recieve. He looked and there was no one He called and none would answer but his arm was not shortened that it could not save.
James Gibbons said:

Char said:

I admit to the presupposition that if Christianity doesn't teach depravity it throws it into doubt. Honestly that's what convinced me of Christianity in the first place-this was the only view that actually admitted that people were the utter bags of of crap I found us to be in my experience. For me it's that or nihilism because man are we crap bags.
How does it work when you come up with the same interpretation without the grid? Arguments abound on NT texts, but I always felt the OT preached this more.

Crapbags, yes. But dead crapbags, meaning crapbags incapable of hearing, understanding, and accepting an offer to be made perfect…free of charge? That’s what I don’t see. The blood of Christ is sufficient for the remission of all sin (+20 percent—trespass offering). It is offered to all. How cynical would it be to offer it to all, but then say, “but I’m making some of you incapable of receiving the offer.” That’s just not the God I know.

Crapbags! You crack me up, sister.

I understand the difference. But there’s still only four ounces of water in that glass. So it really doesn’t make a difference.

[Raquel]

I'm reading - just having a good teacher day here at home so I'm jamming as much info as possible into my sons brain. I heart days like this.

I wonder because I see grace being resisted so fully when dealing in some real life situations. Have you ever known someone who you KNEW, without a doubt, that God was pursuing? And yet they resisted? I see it all the time in prisons. All. The. Time.

So can irresistible grace be resistible for a time until they finally give in? Doesn't seem possible, if it's irresistible, that they would resist even for a moment.

[Kim]

It makes a difference between an empty glass and a half full glass :) we can go like this all day. Either way when talking about salvation we know that not all will be saved so the glass will never be full :) ...as if any of that makes sense.

James Gibbons said:

Kim said:

James,

I don't think that God made some incapable of recieving (that is the negative that humans are always irresistably drawn to :) ) God made some of us capable to recieve. He looked and there was no one He called and none would answer but his arm was not shortened that it could not save.
James Gibbons said:

Char said:

I admit to the presupposition that if Christianity doesn't teach depravity it throws it into doubt. Honestly that's what convinced me of Christianity in the first place-this was the only view that actually admitted that people were the utter bags of of crap I found us to be in my experience. For me it's that or nihilism because man are we crap bags.
How does it work when you come up with the same interpretation without the grid? Arguments abound on NT texts, but I always felt the OT preached this more.

Crapbags, yes. But dead crapbags, meaning crapbags incapable of hearing, understanding, and accepting an offer to be made perfect…free of charge? That’s what I don’t see. The blood of Christ is sufficient for the remission of all sin (+20 percent—trespass offering). It is offered to all. How cynical would it be to offer it to all, but then say, “but I’m making some of you incapable of receiving the offer.” That’s just not the God I know.

Crapbags! You crack me up, sister.

I understand the difference. But there’s still only four ounces of water in that glass. So it really doesn’t make a difference.

[Char]

I admit my experience is probably different than most. As a child I had a positively mediaeval view of sin. The evil that I did out of compulsion far outweighed any good I did out of duty.

No I don't think people are only evil, they are still made in the image of God. However I recognize after all these years that they just can't see what I see. I can't say they are just not as good as I am in believing because honestly I'm a worse crap bag than any of them.

[Raquel]

(oh. and earlier I almost pointed out that Rey wants to take Romans 9 contextually but not Timothy... but that was WAY off course. WAY.)

[Char]

Irresistible grace does not insist that resistance of any kind is impossible. Just that resistance is futile. :)

[Kim]

Like Jonah

Char said:

Irresistible grace does not insist that resistance of any kind is impossible. Just that resistance is futile. :)

[Raquel]

Jonah..? Wouldn't you say that Jonah resisted the whole way down?

Kim said:

Like Jonah

Char said:

Irresistible grace does not insist that resistance of any kind is impossible. Just that resistance is futile. :)

[Rey Reynoso]

Raquel said:

(oh. and earlier I almost pointed out that Rey wants to take Romans 9 contextually but not Timothy... but that was WAY off course. WAY.)

(Totally off topic. And I do take it in context, you're just Totally Depraved in your understanding. )

[Harry]

God's grace is freely given, He wants all to be saved. We were saved 2000 years ago when Christ died on the Cross. Everything points to the Cross, this is what Lutherans call the Theology of the Cross, Calvinist have a hard time with this because they look to the Sovereignty of God or the Theology of Glory. The means of Grace come to us through the Word of God and the Sacraments. The only way that we are not elected is when we reject our baptism.

[Char]

But he did exactly what God intended him to do all the way down. (Jonah that is)