irresistible grace

[Raquel]

If God's grace is irresistible then why do we (all of humanity) resist on a daily basis?

[Rey Reynoso]

Char said:

Irresistible grace does not insist that resistance of any kind is impossible. Just that resistance is futile. :)

Extra points for the Borg Reference.

[Kim]

Okay this is getting too funny for a serious discussion

[Rey Reynoso]

Kim

Depends on your definition of All is. If you're a Calvinist All [the Church] will be saved because their salvation is irresistibly given. If you're an Arminian All [those who believe to the end] will be saved. If you're a universalist All [and I mean all] will be saved.

But what if God's salvation was only merited by one and everyone else who is saved is just icing? in other words if the only salvation that ultimately mattered was the salvation of Christ then there would be no need to question Why some are saved and others are not. It's not that God is picking them for salvation--its that Christ says "I'm going to condemn the world. You don't want to die in God's judgment, believe me and cling to my coattails." So in this scenario All [who believe Christ] will be saved [on account of being in Christ's own salvation].

I mean we can make up a few permutations but sometimes the distinction isn't all that clear.

[Char]

Harry I thought you told me I was a closet Lutheran!! Where's the love? :'(

[Raquel]

Agreed.
But did Jonah not resist what God asked of him every step of the way? I'm not saying that whatever we choose was a big surprise to God. What I am saying is that the same thing coulda happened but with a much happier ending had Jonah not resisted? Something with shade involved?

Char said:

But he did exactly what God intended him to do all the way down.

[Jack]

Scottl; I agree with your statement except wih your use of the word "wooes or wooeing". In John 6:44, Jesus says:
"No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him..." ESV. Many say that this word "calls or Draws" means to woo them. this is false! The same grk word Helko is also found in Acts 16:19, Where they seized and dragged (wooed?)them..! Also in James 2:6 "...The ones who drag you into court?ESV. Has anyone ever wooed you into court? Does a mob Woo their victoms into the public square?
God does much more than to woo or entice us. According to John 6:44, He uses an irresistable "drawing".
The Geezer
ScottL said:

Nicole put it well.

I would say that, for the five-pointer who believes in total depravity from the Calvinist view - that every part of humanity has been affected and corrupted by sin and, thus, the inability of humanity to merit salvation - for me, it seems this can only lead one to embrace irresistible grace. Matter of fact, I think if one is going to believe the Calvinistic way on any of the five points, I think it will lead to embracing all five. They all interlink with one another.

But, as Nicole said, it is not that humanity cannot resist or reject God - His general grace in life or special grace in Christ by the Spirit. It's just that when God does truly move upon the heart of a human, they will be drawn into that wooing. A good Calvinist believes that God must convert and change the will for it to actually want to receive His grace and believe upon Christ. Hence, God knows He must do that irresistible work of grace for us to receive of Him.

By the way, to avoid any harsh comments, I am only explaining my understanding of the Calvinistic view. I am not saying whether I agree or not. :)

Interestingly enough, John Piper wrote a little article today on his blog to say Happy 305th Birthday to Jonathan Edwards. It might be of interest in regards to this topic.

[Kim]

Rey,

My glass was full of universalists :) ALL ALL that ALL saved made for a full glass.
Really the analogy is bad. It is not about optimism or pessimism but that God saves.
IMO God from scripture I see a God who saves out of a world that hates him. No one answered or wanted to answer but God would not be deterred by that. He freely offers all decline God still saves..this is what I see


Rey Reynoso said:

Kim

Depends on your definition of All is. If you're a Calvinist All [the Church] will be saved because their salvation is irresistibly given. If you're an Arminian All [those who believe to the end] will be saved. If you're a universalist All [and I mean all] will be saved.

But what if God's salvation was only merited by one and everyone else who is saved is just icing? in other words if the only salvation that ultimately mattered was the salvation of Christ then there would be no need to question Why some are saved and others are not. It's not that God is picking them for salvation--its that Christ says "I'm going to condemn the world. You don't want to die in God's judgment, believe me and cling to my coattails." So in this scenario All [who believe Christ] will be saved [on account of being in Christ's own salvation].

I mean we can make up a few permutations but sometimes the distinction isn't all that clear.

[Rey Reynoso]

People might want to check out my obnoxious post about Scripture that never proves your point.

[Char]

The Lord saw that there was no justice so he worked salvation with his own right arm.

[Ratatösk]

Someone please explain to me what this has to do with Halloween or Infant Baptism!!!

Come on!

[Raquel]

On Halloween children throw crapbags onto people's doorsteps.

Phil James said:

Someone please explain to me what this has to do with Halloween or Infant Baptism!!!

Come on!

[Raquel]

Again, I agree. But He did it Himself because He was resistible by foolish man; right?