Does God hate sinners?

[David McDowell]

Hello friends. I do not post on here a lot, but on another message board, primarily geared toward reformed believers, the discussion of God hating sinners has come up. I have my opinions, but I'm more interested in what you may think. So, does God hate sinners?

[sticha]

The answer is yes, God hates sinners.

"I hate them with a perfect hatred.” (Ps. 139:22)

[karl kleinpaste]

The speaker in Ps 139:22 is not God. It is the psalmist.

[sticha]

•Psalm 5:5, "The boastful shall not stand before Thine eyes; Thou dost hate all who do iniquity,"

•Psalm 11:5, "The Lord tests the righteous and the wicked, and the one who loves violence His soul hates."

•Lev. 20:23, "Moreover, you shall not follow the customs of the nation which I shall drive out before you, for they did all these things, and therefore I have abhorred them."

•Prov. 6:16-19, "There are six things which the Lord hates, yes, seven which are an abomination to Him: 17 Haughty eyes, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, 18 A heart that devises wicked plans, feet that run rapidly to evil, 19 A false witness who utters lies, and one who spreads strife among brothers."

Malachi 1:2-3 I have loved you,’” says the LORD. But you ask, 'How have you loved us?' ‘Was not Esau Jacob's brother?’ the LORD says. ‘Yet I have loved Jacob, but Esau I have hated, and I have turned his mountains into a wasteland and left his inheritance to the desert jackals.


karl kleinpaste said:

The speaker in Ps 139:22 is not God. It is the psalmist.

[David McDowell]

A few related questions: Do you think the context of these verses can be measured against the love of God? How do you reconcile God hating his own creation? Is the phrase "God loves the sinner, but hates the sin" a biblical phrase?

[Damian]

I don't know if it helps but, Rom 5:8 "But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us."

Damian

[Apolojedi (Daniel Eaton)]

Interesting that the listed verses that tend to indicate "hatred" all come from the OT...which by definition isn't the whole story. Just a thought...

Daniel

[David McDowell]

Ok, here are my thoughts. I do not think that God hates sinners. To use the popular saying, I think that God loves the sin, but hates the sinner. Almost all the passages that were mentioned in their context can be shown that God does not hate the sinner specifically, but rather hates the fact that the sinner is unrighteous. It does not seem possible to me that God could look at his creation and say that is is "very good" and then hate that thing that He created. It seems more plausible to me that God hates the sin that separates us from Him. The Bible is replete with passages that talk about His love for us, but not as many that talk about him "hating" us. Anybody else have any thoughts?

Damian said:

I don't know if it helps but, Rom 5:8 "But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us."

Damian

[David Zierenberg]

For God so loved the world...well, except for you...and ...you ...and ...you. Oh, and all you other sinners. Hmmm, that seems to rule out pretty much everyone.

The funny thing about focusing on how much God hates sinners is that we seldom put ourselves in that category. Kind of like "God, I thank you that I am not like other men--robbers, evildoers, adulterers..." Self-righteousness is just so much easier when we focus on how much God hates other people, but loves us.

[David McDowell]

David, thank you! I like that. I'm getting very beat up and attacked on another board and I have spent a majority of this afternoon trying to pinpoint and articulate exactly what I believe. I don't think I could have stated it better than you have. To use theological language, this is my latest articulation from that board:

"Even if I grant that 'God hates sinners,' it is apparent from the context of all the passages that reference God's hate that God's hatred would not be grounded in the sinner's humanity, it would be grounded in the sinner's hatred of God which goes back to their sin and not the imago dei. For the record, I am not granting this. My position is that God does not hate sinners, but hates their sin. I say this to further explain why I think saying 'God hates sinners' is such a travesty. If God hates sinners, He would hate them for something that He initially called "very good" and I do not think that total depravity extends to the very essence of the imago dei. This would be contrary to the doctrine of common grace."

David M.

David Zierenberg said:

For God so loved the world...well, except for you...and ...you ...and ...you. Oh, and all you other sinners. Hmmm, that seems to rule out pretty much everyone.

The funny thing about focusing on how much God hates sinners is that we seldom put ourselves in that category. Kind of like "God, I thank you that I am not like other men--robbers, evildoers, adulterers..." Self-righteousness is just so much easier when we focus on how much God hates other people, but loves us.

[sticha]

Are those verses somehow "lesser" than the NT scriptures?


Apolojedi (Daniel Eaton) said:

Interesting that the listed verses that tend to indicate "hatred" all come from the OT...which by definition isn't the whole story. Just a thought...

Daniel

[sticha]

If you don't think God hates sinners then what do you do with the verses I listed?

David McDowell said:

Ok, here are my thoughts. I do not think that God hates sinners. To use the popular saying, I think that God loves the sin, but hates the sinner. Almost all the passages that were mentioned in their context can be shown that God does not hate the sinner specifically, but rather hates the fact that the sinner is unrighteous. It does not seem possible to me that God could look at his creation and say that is is "very good" and then hate that thing that He created. It seems more plausible to me that God hates the sin that separates us from Him. The Bible is replete with passages that talk about His love for us, but not as many that talk about him "hating" us. Anybody else have any thoughts?

Damian said:

I don't know if it helps but, Rom 5:8 "But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us."

Damian

[Apolojedi (Daniel Eaton)]

sticha said:

Are those verses somehow "lesser" than the NT scriptures?

Not "lesser". Just not "all".

Daniel