Does "Racism" and "Anti-Semitism" have the same meaning or are they different?

[J. Larry Shope]

(1.) Can you disagree w/the new President's policies and be anti-semitic?
(2.) Was Jesus a racist when he opposed the Pharisees?
(3.) Why aren't Christians anti-semitic when they disagree with Muslims?
(4.) Why aren't Americans racists when they disagree with the Chinese?

Maybe we have been conditioned or purposely misinformed as a society and need to consider reprogramming our thinking, by educating ourselves. After all, would you want a LAWYER to interpret the Bible?

[Charles Williams]

I'm having trouble seeing the distinction you are making Larry. The promises to Abraham and subsequently to Moses and then to David were promises to a people comprised of all twelve tribes, including those who were foreigners who joined God's chosen people and lived among them in obedience to the Law. The OT does not indicate that God hated the northern tribes when they rebelled but rather God gave them over to their own sin when they no longer responded to his call to repentence. And it is clear from the OT that their loss grieved God. Furthermore Jesus' criticism of the Pharasees was fundamentally redemptive, a call to repent. He criticized them as blinded by their rejection of the true nature of God's purposes as embodied in the Law. These criticisms were of their hearts and minds, not their ethnicity. Any of us who have a like mind with the Pharasees fall under the same criticism as I'm sure I do from time to time. I pray for God to forgive me for this.

J. Larry Shope said:

John: I think I'm in agreement with most of what you said, but Jesus was a Jew who condemned the Pharisees. The Pharisees claimed to be Jews, but where they Israelites? The only Israelites who can make the claim of being Jews is the tribe of Judah.

[Scott]

Larry -

I do think you are making an historical and ethnic mistake here in trying to dichotomize Israelites and Jews/Judahites. You must know that a Jew (one from the tribe of Judah) is an Israelite. Remember that Israel had 12 tribes, one of them being Jews. So, if Pharisees were somehow a part of the other 11 tribes, they were still connected to those of the tribe of Judah. Also, it's not about condemning Israelites or those of Judah. Jesus will condemn any hypocrite. He has no time for such ploys.

So, I don't think it solid ground to try and build up something that says certain people were not Jews but Israelites. In the new covenant in Christ, God works amongst Jews, Zambians, Koreans, Americans, Israelis, Iraqis, etc, etc.

J. Larry Shope said:

John: I think I'm in agreement with most of what you said, but Jesus was a Jew who condemned the Pharisees. The Pharisees claimed to be Jews, but where they Israelites? The only Israelites who can make the claim of being Jews is the tribe of Judah.

[John J Travers III]

Charles I agree with your response. Isreal was the father of all twelve tribes and anyone of that lineage was considered an Isrealite.

Charles Williams said:

I'm having trouble seeing the distinction you are making Larry. The promises to Abraham and subsequently to Moses and then to David were promises to a people comprised of all twelve tribes, including those who were foreigners who joined God's chosen people and lived among them in obedience to the Law. The OT does not indicate that God hated the northern tribes when they rebelled but rather God gave them over to their own sin when they no longer responded to his call to repentence. And it is clear from the OT that their loss grieved God. Furthermore Jesus' criticism of the Pharasees was fundamentally redemptive, a call to repent. He criticized them as blinded by their rejection of the true nature of God's purposes as embodied in the Law. These criticisms were of their hearts and minds, not their ethnicity. Any of us who have a like mind with the Pharasees fall under the same criticism as I'm sure I do from time to time. I pray for God to forgive me for this.

J. Larry Shope said:

John: I think I'm in agreement with most of what you said, but Jesus was a Jew who condemned the Pharisees. The Pharisees claimed to be Jews, but where they Israelites? The only Israelites who can make the claim of being Jews is the tribe of Judah.

[Char]

It's true ethnicity had nothing to do with the condemnation of the Jewish leaders. On the Jew/Israel thing, Paul was of the tribe of Benjamin, Barnabas a levite, and Anna the prophetess was of Asher. That is not Judahites. Yet Paul uses his ethnicity as proof he was a Jew's Jew so to speak. When the Northern Kingdom fell eventually the term Jew came to describe the Judahites but all who were of Israel and remained or returned to Judah.

[J. Larry Shope]

What does not change is the Jews control most of the world's money and you need money to control governents. If those two factors make me a racist or antisemite, then I can live with the accusation and go to bed with a clear conscience knowing the Church is not going to judge me in the end. We need to separate the terms "Jews" from "Israelites" when discussing the scriptures and not lumping them together. In the end it won't matter, but while we are on earth it does.

[Scott]

Larry -

I think you are missing the point that it does not matter if one is a Jew or Israelite, or Belgian or German, etc. As Char had mentioned, Paul, himself, claimed to be an Israelite -

Rom 11:1 - For I myself am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, a member of the tribe of Benjamin.

1 Cor 11:22 - Are they Hebrews? So am I. Are they Israelites? So am I. Are they offspring of Abraham? So am I.

Being an Israelite, or a Jew, does not make one inherently evil. It all has to do with the heart. We know the beautiful passage in 1 Sam 16:7 - 'man looks on the outward appearance, but the LORD looks on the heart.' In the end, please don't judge someone by their ethnicity, nationality, or skin color. We make wise judgments as we learn of the character and heart of particular people. I have a friend, the wife of a pastor, who is a wonderful women of God, but she is Jewish/of Israelite heritage. She can't change that, but God has changed her heart. I would just encourage us to consider heart and character, not ethnicity and background, lest I be judged as well.

[J. Larry Shope]

No Scott, it is you who is missing the point! I want to see who the "synagogue of Satan" is, not run from them. You go and help them find salvation, I intend to keep them honest by not turning my back!

[Jim Schnepp]

"Wow" is about the only thing polite that comes to mind on this one.

I am very thick skinned and let people get away with saying almost anything to me, but these kind of statements are very saturated in anti-semitic wording to me. In studying my heritage, I must have missed the parts you are talking about.

J. Larry Shope said:

No Scott, it is you who is missing the point! I want to see who the "synagogue of Satan" is, not run from them. You go and help them find salvation, I intend to keep them honest by not turning my back!

[Charles Williams]

It helps to bring this whole conversation into focus if you go back over the claims that have been made. Here is an informal but fairly complete list:
• Our society has been purposely misinformed and conditioned to support the “UN Nation of Israel,” presumably by the Jews or their proxies (this was not stated but I think it was implied).
• The war on terror and 9-11 were “not true” as shown by the fall of bldg 7 without being hit by an airplane. Who the conspirator was who manufactures this terrible tragedy or what was their objective was not stated. I thought it was radical Islam but what do I know?
• Today’s Jews are nothing more than “proselyte Gentiles” against whom Christians are afraid to speak out. I’m not sure what Christians are afraid, probably the insidious “they.”
• The gradual migration from “bimetallism” to “commercial paper” is evidence of a conspiracy. Again, I’m not sure what the conspiracy is or who is behind it, but certainly not having to carry around several pounds of heavy metals when we go shopping is a bad thing.
• God needs to apologize to Adam and Eve for not retuning them the Garden of Eden. How could God have been so insensitive?
• The Jews control the Bank of England and the Federal Reserve. I don’t know what Jews, just “the Jews.”
• We are being manipulated by the Jews to support “the UN Nation of Israel.”
• If we followed the line of reasoning that we should trust the government, JFK would still be alive. I’m still scratching my head over this one.
• The goal of the Jews is to take control of our government. Who knows maybe “they” would make less of a mess out of it than it is already in. Actually, I’m not sure why they would want it.
• History happens because it is planned. I guess this includes Pearl Harbor being planned by Roosevelt and the Jews.
• The AMA is part of a “World Order” agenda and is preventing us from finding a cure for diabetes and cancer. Ugh.
• The Jews control the world’s money supply. If they control it, they are not doing a very good job of managing their own assets.
• The basis of our choice about how to live our lives is that we are “not guaranteed” a tomorrow. I honestly thought the basis of this decision was to try to honor God as Christ commanded us to do. And in fact we are guaranteed an unlimited supply of tomorrows in His presence.
• Jews are not truly Israelite...or maybe it is that Israelites are not truly Jews...I’m a little confused on this one. I can’t begin to unravel this one.
• The Jews...or maybe it’s the Israelites” are a “synagogue of Satan.” This misrepresents Scripture.
Larry, I am by nature a patient person, even with those with whom I strongly disagree. But this over-long running dialogue really got my goat. I remember hearing this kind of fiction from my grandfather who was a card carrying racist member of the John Birch Society. I think because I loved him in spite of his ignorance and hatred, I have come to be sensitive to the sad absurdity of claims such as the ones we’ve read in this dialogue. Claims such as these are not only untrue, they are damaging to the ones who holds them. They have nothing to do either with reality or with the Gospel of Jesus Christ and they divide His people rather than bring them together. There is not one word in Scripture to justify hatred or even suspicion of the Jews. Our task is to mourn their failure to recognize their own Messiah and pray for the day when God will gather them into His kingdom. Anything beyond that is simply wrong.
There have been times in History when there was a unified effort to undermine democratic institutions, or financial order, or social structure. The Nazis were one example, the Marxists another. Today the US is spied upon by the Chinese, the Russians, the Israelis, the British, the French...and the list goes on. I know this because for many years it was my business to know. I have studied conspiracies and threats because it was my business to study them. Today the primary threat to good order in society is radical Islam. It is insidious, dangerous and completely without moral inhibitions. It has no other objective than to hurt you, your children, and your family and to destroy everything that you value. But even for radical Islamists we have a mandate from Christ to pray for them and to love those who hate us.
The Jews however have none of the goals of domination as those that characterize radical Islam. There is no unified entity that you keep calling “the Jews.” They have no head, no agenda, and no unified objectives. Other than the goal of national survival against incredible odds, the Knesset is about as goal driven as our congress and you know how factious, corrupt and ineffective it is. In short, there is no evidence whatsoever of a worldwide Jewish conspiracy except in the minds of those who need a scapegoat or a focus for some personal emotional issue.
God bless you Larry.

[Jack]

God Promised Abraham: "I will bless them that bless thee, and Curse them that curse thee." God used Babylon to chasten His people, but afterward, destroyed Babylon for their malicious treatment of His people.
I will continue to pray for, Love, and support Israel, and Let God use someone else to correct their error. Geezer

[Scott]

Larry -

Those who are of the 'synagogue of Satan' are those who follow after his ways - American, Canadian, Brazilian, and possibly Jews, etc, etc, etc. It's a heart thing, not an ethnic or nationality thing. Just as those who are part of Christ's 'synagogue' come from every nation and background as His followers, so are those who follow after Satan and his ways. We have to remember this all comes down to an inside thing, not an ethnic thing.


J. Larry Shope said:

No Scott, it is you who is missing the point! I want to see who the "synagogue of Satan" is, not run from them. You go and help them find salvation, I intend to keep them honest by not turning my back!