Is this a "generation gap" or what?

[Cherylu]

I have found a phenomenon here that I simply do not understand. 

 

And maybe by reading this you will understand a little bit better why I respond to some things here the way that I do.

 

I will be sixty two years old come January.  In all of those years I have been taught that as Christians we are to love each other, respect each other, treat others with gentleness and kindness and that what we do as Christians is to be edifying and meant to encourage and lift up our fellow Christians.  And that we are, by our lives and our words, to give a true witness to the One that we claim we serve.  The all righteous, all loving, holy and just God.

 

So why is it that it seems that cantankerousness is promoted here?  Why does it seem that it is sometimes good to belittle or attack others instead of just disagreeing with their view points?  Why is humor about killing folks created in God's image thought to be appropriate? Why did someone feel the need to warn everyone that if they were easily offended they probably shouldn't read what he wrote so that everyone else could get on with their "adult" conversation?  Why does it seem that cutting sarcasm is often highly valued?  Why is it that after an incident here yesterday that started over what someone called "bathroom humor" and that was followed by a heartfelt apology to all us, is the same behavior encouraged by others?  If someone truly apologizes, should we encourage them to go back to more of the same?  Are these types of scenarios truly hallmarks of mature Christian living? Or mature theology?  If they are not, why are any of them promoted here?

 

Am I completely crazy and just an over the hill person that is totally out of touch with reality here?  Or are individual "rights" and personality types, etc,  being glorified here at the expense of the type of living and speech that God truly wants from all of us?

 

None of us are perfect or have arrived.  I know I certainly have not.  But are we not to encourage each other in walking in godly ways and not encourage each other in things that often seem to be the opposite of what God has spelled out for us in the Bible?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Daniel]

Which itself is discouraged in our rules and seen as "disruptive".  I guess some part of that "We have had some quite lengthy and active discussions simply vanish due to the person that initially created the topic deciding to leave. We ask that should you ever decide to leave Theologica or take a break from the site, that you do not delete your account." wasn't clear enough and was open to alternate interpretation.  But who am I to judge what is "clear", right? LOL

Marv said:

He's not gone. He just deleted his material.

[Jason]

Sigh.

The potty mouthed reference by Doc Mike was more so the kind that should be moderated, and not the other.

The problem I'm seeing is that few wish to own up to errors. As I mentioned when this thread started, several of us have had to do so. We shall probably have to do so again.

I, for one, dislike the going 'round and 'round about the moderation. I don't want you to think I have a vendetta or a bad feeling against you. I do, however, feel that you largely are responsible for the tone of the site and can change it by changing your tone on that issue.

Either way, I'm through. This discussion has me tired, and I feel it's getting us nowhere.

Daniel said:

I'd be the first to admit that I had a lot going on that morning.  Woke up to multiple emails and PMs about bad behavior and got them in the context of prior discussions about letting way too much go.  And I admit that my first reaction was knee-jerk.  But then I stopped and re-read the post, re-read (and updated) my response, and decided to post it anyway.  So it probably wasn't so much of a over-reaction as much of a case of punishing the kids at the time of an infraction even though doing it later in a more objective manner would have produced different results.  But I decided to take immediate action in the heat of the moment because I saw a really good topic headed downhill quickly and was trying to nip it in the bud.  So I am not going to minimize a conscious decision as just a slip of the pen or confusion on my part.  If I was wrong, so be it.  I'll be wrong again before too long.  But I thought the matter serious (referring to God and Christianity as "myth" in the context of a discussion that also included atheists) and don't laugh it off.

Besides, the whole thing seems moot now.  All of Doc Mike's comments are gone and so, apparently, is he.  Some will see this as a situation resolving itself.  Others will see it as good members being chased off by bully moderators.  But again, if the consensus is that things have gone downhill around here and I'm contributing to that and not trying to fight that, I have other things I can fill my days with.

Marv said:

But besides just not recognizing the reference, Daniel, unless I am totally mistaken you were (1) already riled up, and (2) kind of boomeranging from dealing with "the atheists" and having it said you were not taking care of things. Seemed like a classic, text-book over-reaction. Which, at this point, just needs to be admitted, laughed off, and forgotten about.

[Dave Z]

Cheryl, I already answered your question. 

 

Cherylu said:

Would Jesus talk about using blood and knives and watching the blood drip??   Or talk about killing people and that it would "probably be more fun?"  Is He or is He not our ultimate standard?

 

Let me propose an idea, springing in part from the following comment:

Can you please explain to me when pointing out problems became a synonym for being a Pharisee?

That seems to be a charge that gets leveled at folks in many Christian situations these days when/if they disagree with something that is going on. 

I don't know when it became the unspoken rule in the body of Christ that nothing is ever to be said about anything.  Terrible doctrinal error in the church or ungodly behavior of any kind seen anywhere is just supposed to be ignored any more it seems.

 Ignored at least when it comes to saying anything about it to hopefully improve the situation.  But not ignored when it comes to other fellow believers encouraging it.

 

It is a fact that one of the characteristics of the Pharisees is that they tended to see sin everywhere, then boldly point it out.  They even saw sin where it clearly did not exist, in Jesus himself, and they squawked about that too.  So if someone does that today, the Pharisee label may be appropriate.  Maybe not always, but sometimes.

The portion I bolded is wildly overstated.  Several spoke up here and action was taken.  But you don't seem satisfied.  What do you want?  Shall your understandings dictate those of everyone else?  

Maybe when people don't agree with you, especially if it's a group of believers, indwelt by the Holy Spirit and all, it's not because they're all wrong.  Maybe it's because you're wrong.  I mean, that should at least be a possibility in your mind.  But you seem to be aggressively pushing for everyone to agree with you.

 

[Phil James]

Daniel, has that 'don't delete your account' business always been a part of the rules?

[Phil James]

Is Theologica an Evangelical site?

Jason said:

 For my part, I think it casts a shadow over Theologica the way that Genesis and creation are hammered on so incessantly, and that OEC and other aberrations are embraced and encouraged. Historically, your view on that is not an evangelical view.

[Cherylu]

Hey,

 

I'm not the only one that has seen a problem here as reading this thread will prove.  I just happen to be the one that brought it up.  

 

Action was taken in the fact that the moderator stepped in.  Does that mean anything has changed long term?  Only time will tell that I guess.

 

And if you think Jesus would joke about using knives and guns on people and watching blood drip or say, "Just kill them," in response to a comment by someone else, we are obviously on such a totally different page that there is likely no hope for agreement.

 

Dave Z said:

Cheryl, I already answered your question. 

 

Cherylu said:

Would Jesus talk about using blood and knives and watching the blood drip??   Or talk about killing people and that it would "probably be more fun?"  Is He or is He not our ultimate standard?

 

Let me propose an idea, springing in part from the following comment:

Can you please explain to me when pointing out problems became a synonym for being a Pharisee?

That seems to be a charge that gets leveled at folks in many Christian situations these days when/if they disagree with something that is going on. 

I don't know when it became the unspoken rule in the body of Christ that nothing is ever to be said about anything.  Terrible doctrinal error in the church or ungodly behavior of any kind seen anywhere is just supposed to be ignored any more it seems.

 Ignored at least when it comes to saying anything about it to hopefully improve the situation.  But not ignored when it comes to other fellow believers encouraging it.

 

It is a fact that one of the characteristics of the Pharisees is that they tended to see sin everywhere, then boldly point it out.  They even saw sin where it clearly did not exist, in Jesus himself, and they squawked about that too.  So if someone does that today, the Pharisee label may be appropriate.  Maybe not always, but sometimes.

The portion I bolded is wildly overstated.  Several spoke up here and action was taken.  But you don't seem satisfied.  What do you want?  Shall your understandings dictate those of everyone else?  

Maybe when people don't agree with you, especially if it's a group of believers, indwelt by the Holy Spirit and all, it's not because they're all wrong.  Maybe it's because you're wrong.  I mean, that should at least be a possibility in your mind.  But you seem to be aggressively pushing for everyone to agree with you.

 

[Cherylu]

Well, I am still not sure what you meant.  But I guess after people have been called all manner of things, they can start to get a little bit sensitive and think that the next one is leveled at them too!

 

Jason said:

Cherylu,

I think you need to go back and read what I said. Hyper-sensitivity is causing you to read with a jaundiced eye.

 

Cherylu said:

Jason,

 

Can you please explain to me when pointing out problems became a synonym for being a Pharisee?

 

That seems to be a charge that gets leveled at folks in many Christian situations these days when/if they disagree with something that is going on. 

 

I don't know when it became the unspoken rule in the body of Christ that nothing is ever to be said about anything.  Terrible doctrinal error in the church or ungodly behavior of any kind seen anywhere is just supposed to be ignored any more it seems.

 

Ignored at least when it comes to saying anything about it to hopefully improve the situation.  But not ignored when it comes to other fellow believers encouraging it.

[Lisa Robinson]

I've been observing this thread from a distance on and off as well as some other activity here on Theo.  Despite that fact that I've developed some warm alliances with some here, I must be objective (translated you might be offended).

 

As much as we want to cry foul for someone's behavior, seems to me there is also a burden to not take offense.  I recall reading that in scripture, about being tenderhearted and forgiving, i.e. let's take the higher road.   I don't relish some of the ways in which people and/or topics have been addressed personalities being different and all, but neither do I think it is productive to make a case out of every offense or perceived offense.   It actually disturbs me that we are more worried about being accommodating enemies of God while rebuking his children in an open forum this way.

 

I think we would do well to remember that this is a discussion board.  That is to discuss things not to raise issues about people's personalities.  If one does not discuss things in a manner that we like, then don't discuss anything with them.  If they tick us off, forgive them and ignore them.  If we think they are being offensive, address them off-line.  But for goodness sake don't make Theologica into something it was never designed to be.  We're not going to like everybody and everybody is not going to respond in a manner we'd like.

 

Now, can we please get back to the task of discussing the bible and theology?  Thanks

 

 

[Cherylu]

Lisa,

 

Have you seriously read all of the comments here?  Once more, this is not all about personal offence at all.  Although that enters in, it is about a whole lot more then that.  If those issues are not ones to be cared and concerned about, I certainly can not see why not.

 

As Daniel said, the tone and attitude can speak way louder then anything we have to say about theology. 

 

Lisa Robinson said:

I've been observing this thread from a distance on and off as well as some other activity here on Theo.  Despite that fact that I've developed some warm alliances with some here, I must be objective (translated you might be offended).

 

As much as we want to cry foul for someone's behavior, seems to me there is also a burden to not take offense.  I recall reading that in scripture, about being tenderhearted and forgiving, i.e. let's take the higher road.   I don't relish some of the ways in which people and/or topics have been addressed personalities being different and all, but neither do I think it is productive to make a case out of every offense or perceived offense.   It actually disturbs me that we are more worried about being accommodating enemies of God while rebuking his children in an open forum this way.

 

I think we would do well to remember that this is a discussion board.  That is to discuss things not to raise issues about people's personalities.  If one does not discuss things in a manner that we like, then don't discuss anything with them.  If they tick us off, forgive them and ignore them.  If we think they are being offensive, address them off-line.  But for goodness sake don't make Theologica into something it was never designed to be.  We're not going to like everybody and everybody is not going to respond in a manner we'd like.

 

Now, can we please get back to the task of discussing the bible and theology?  Thanks

 

 

[Holly]

It's starting to look like you want everyone to march to your drumbeat.

Cherylu said:

Lisa,

 

Have you seriously read all of the comments here?  Once more, this is not all about personal offence at all.  Although that enters in, it is about a whole lot more then that.  If those issues are not ones to be cared and concerned about, I certainly can not see why not.

 

[Holly]

Did you ever apologize to him, Daniel, for the misstep in moderation? Or simply reiterate your reasons for doing so? Just curious.

I think I'm done for today, unless Char wants to H8 some art with me.

Daniel said:

Which itself is discouraged in our rules and seen as "disruptive".  I guess some part of that "We have had some quite lengthy and active discussions simply vanish due to the person that initially created the topic deciding to leave. We ask that should you ever decide to leave Theologica or take a break from the site, that you do not delete your account." wasn't clear enough and was open to alternate interpretation.  But who am I to judge what is "clear", right? LOL

Marv said:

He's not gone. He just deleted his material.

[Char]

“If anyone worships the beast and his image and receives his mark on the forehead or on the hand, he, too, will drink of the wine of God’s fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. He will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb.

...The angel swung his sickle on the earth, gathered its grapes and threw them into the great winepress of God’s wrath. They were trampled in the winepress outside the city, and blood flowed out of the press, rising as high as the horses’ bridles for a distance of 1,600 stadia.

 

Just saying.

Oh wait, I guess you're right. Jesus doesn't just talk about it, he has it done. Mea culpa.

 

Cherylu said:

Would Jesus talk about using blood and knives and watching the blood drip??   Or talk about killing people and that it would "probably be more fun?"  Is He or is He not our ultimate standard?

 

Maybe you can see Him doing that, but I certainly can't.