Leadership Principles

[Lisa Robinson]

What are your thoughts on promotion of principles, curriculum and methodology designed specifically for Christian leadership?  It occurs to me that the church did fine without leadership philosophies for hundreds of years, other than what was commanded in scripture and developed through the traditions of the church.

Why do we need this?  Or do we?  What say ye?

[karl kleinpaste]

We need "leadership training" only because we've forgotten how to raise boys into men (or, if you wish to be more general, children to adults) in the first place.

[Crazy (JB)]

I agree with Karl's sentiment. Our happy culture has lost the sense of what real leadership is... besides, you know, they get to be in charge and boss everyone else around. 

When a culture (think, your son, my son, and their generation) is quickly losing sight of good leadership, or for that matter biblical leadership, I find myself more shocked every day by the reality of how much they don't know about it. And then these guys and gals hit seminary because they feel "called." So sadly, a course in what actual Christ like leadership should be, is near mandatory. 

[zhansman]

It seems like another area where the church is following the culture.  Leadership training and coaching are very popular right now in the churches I have been involved in the last 7 or 8 years.  I have had some leadership training via work and my church (a startup with 1400 attenders on a sunday) is going to be offering this kind of training soon for anyone involved in positions of leadership.  Our previous church was always a satellite video site for Global Leadership Summit but I never went to it because I would have to take time off from work and it bugged me that the church promoted this event but couldn't put together a class or program related to Christian discipleship.

[Greg Smith]

I think the idea of church has changed.  All the new church leadership stuff is geared toward building some type of mega-church.  I am all for increasing numbers if those additions come from evangelizing the unsaved population rather than recruiting church-hoppers.  The reality is that a church of 500 has different dynamics than a church of 100.  A church of 1000 is more different still.  A church must learn to deal with these differences or the back door will become larger than the front door.  And the argument can always be made that all churches should be smaller.  Make them grow and spin them off.

 

My problem is when the goal is to become a mega-church.  This is usually stated in terms of evangelism or influence for the kingdom but the unspoken reality is too often someone building their own kingdom instead of the Lord's.  They need leadership philosophies for that.  So, I am not against these ideas per se.  It depends on motivation.

[Lisa Robinson]

This bugs me too.  The church was called to make disciples not conduct leadership development seminars. 

zhansman said:

 it bugged me that the church promoted this event but couldn't put together a class or program related to Christian discipleship.

[karl kleinpaste]

zhansman said:

my church (a startup with 1400 attenders on a sunday) is going to be offering this kind of training soon for anyone involved in positions of leadership.

A startup with 1400?  Good gracious.  As far as I'm concerned, you're already in megachurch territory.  What will the numbers be like once you've decided you're no longer a startup?

I left a long-established church that was about that big, largely due to getting lost in the shuffle, to the point that virtually no one noticed when we effectively disappeared.

My position on leadership is (an attempt at) NT modeling: Don't train leaders and then put them in charge.  Rather, identify those who are already leaders, and confirm their de facto leadership as de jure.

[James Gibbons]

Preach it, Karl. Next time I’m up your way, I gotta visit your church.

karl kleinpaste said:

zhansman said:

my church (a startup with 1400 attenders on a sunday) is going to be offering this kind of training soon for anyone involved in positions of leadership.

A startup with 1400?  Good gracious.  As far as I'm concerned, you're already in megachurch territory.  What will the numbers be like once you've decided you're no longer a startup?

I left a long-established church that was about that big, largely due to getting lost in the shuffle, to the point that virtually no one noticed when we effectively disappeared.

My position on leadership is (an attempt at) NT modeling: Don't train leaders and then put them in charge.  Rather, identify those who are already leaders, and confirm their de facto leadership as de jure.

[James Gibbons]

But only if you observe the Lord’s Supper every week. Do you?

[JFDU]

We need leadership seminars to keep folks like John Maxwell employed!

 

As someone who makes his living in the corporate world, I cannot help noticing that this type of “training” is just Christianised corporate/business speak.

 

There is good reason for that of course, because the corporatisation of the church that operates more and more like an enterprise needs a CEO rather than a shepherd and CEO’s need “leadership” training.

 

Without stating the obvious, I'm not referring to churches like Karl's.

[Mark Edwards]

The 2 word definition of leadership my father taught me: "Follow me."  Seems like I recall Jesus saying something like that, too! :)

[zhansman]

It seems a lot of the leadership training I have been involved with is how to deal with people -- how to motivate others, serve others, motivate yourself , conflict resolution.  I think this type of training is needed for those in leadership -- actually anybody because we are all leaders of something.  Yes, I think the basic techniques, structures and  protocols are in the Bible but what is the best way to pass this on to successive generations of leaders?  Plus leadership classes, or however the mentoring is set up, should include personal experience -- successes and fails.  I can tell you I sat through sermons and and conflict resolution classes in a previous church we were members of , but when push came to shove and my wife and I were involved in some conflict resolution with some of the church leadership, they still acted like a**h***s and we eventually left the church.