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Take a look at THIS miracle.

 

Additional information about this couple can be found here .

 

Do you think this is real? Exaggerated?

 

What do you think?

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sigh. no. an example. The LDS will ask you to 'pray about' their church and ask God to speak to you thru a physical manifestation of heat in your chest, a 'burning in your bosom' if you will.

I am not disputing that folk feel this. I am disputing that it is of God. That is one example.

JRKH said:
Exactly right !!! Satatn cannot do this. It goes against his very nature.

Raquel said:
So are you suggesting that satan will perform signs and wonders that elevate and glorify God?
Maybe we should ask the flip side. Who is getting the glory and attention here? Is the faith healer or the Christian speaker/singer that will be getting a lot of attention? The jury may still be out on that one. I don't know. Also, when Christ sends away the miracle workers that He "doesn't know", what does that indicate? Were their miracles fake? Where they wonders from Satan? Or did Got use bad people for His own glory? I'm not quite sure we have enough information to really know. My guess though is that it is some combination of all three. We are given instructions on how to tell if a prophet is a fraud. We don't have that with miracles. That is what makes it so dicey.

Daniel

"In this you are incorrect. Lourdes most definitely elevates God. And it does not elevate the creature over the creator."

Absolutely not. Lourdes elevates man made myths about divine like female and origins of that are found in gnostic teachings if not prior to them...
Let's do a review. The 'pierced heart of mary' is right next to, on the same level of the 'sacred heart of jesus' a reference to her being sinless is made (no one was sinless except Christ) words actually are: "O Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee"

and it is said "Many Catholic Christians around the world (and some non-Catholics) wear the Miraculous Medal, which they believe will bring them special graces through the intercession of Mary if worn with faith and devotion at the hour of death."

intercessions that are not needed. Why? We have the True Intercessor at the Right hand of the Father.
Jesus. We don't need a co-redemptrix. We also have the Holy Ghost interceding for us with 'words that cannot be uttered'....

So. Makes Mary out to be Sinless.
Makes Mary out to be an Miraculous Intercessor
Makes praying to her and devotion to her a Good Thing.

All such prayer and devotion belongs to Christ, to God, alone.
JRKH said:
In this you are incorrect. Lourdes most definitely elevates God. And it does not elevate the creature over the creator.

Peace
James

Frank said:
lourdes doesn't elevate God, it elevates the Creature over the Creator. See the 'miraculous medals from there'

Raquel said:
So are you suggesting that satan will perform signs and wonders that elevate and glorify God?


So what you are saying below is that, the faith healer in the video, our friends joining in prayer with us for special intentions etc. are all things that are not of God. For we already have the perfect intercessor in Christ. So we don't need, nor should we use, others to pray for us (intercede) nor whould we attend a "healing service" where a minster of the Gospel prays for us and invokes the spirit to heal (intercede).

As to the Immaculate conception. We are already too far off topic so I'll leave that one alone.

God alone redeems.

Peace
James

Frank said:
Let's do a review. The 'pierced heart of mary' is right next to, on the same level of the 'sacred heart of jesus' a reference to her being sinless is made (no one was sinless except Christ) words actually are: "O Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee"

and it is said "Many Catholic Christians around the world (and some non-Catholics) wear the Miraculous Medal, which they believe will bring them special graces through the intercession of Mary if worn with faith and devotion at the hour of death."

intercessions that are not needed. Why? We have the True Intercessor at the Right hand of the Father.
Jesus. We don't need a co-redemptrix. We also have the Holy Ghost interceding for us with 'words that cannot be uttered'....

So. Makes Mary out to be Sinless.
Makes Mary out to be an Miraculous Intercessor
Makes praying to her and devotion to her a Good Thing.

All such prayer and devotion belongs to Christ, to God, alone.
JRKH said:
In this you are incorrect. Lourdes most definitely elevates God. And it does not elevate the creature over the creator.

Peace
James

Frank said:
lourdes doesn't elevate God, it elevates the Creature over the Creator. See the 'miraculous medals from there'

Raquel said:
So are you suggesting that satan will perform signs and wonders that elevate and glorify God?


Praying to Mary is another topic and really gets us far from whether this was a legit miracle or something else.

Daniel

a pastor/bible teacher that i consider very careful in his study and interpretation of the Bible puts forth the theory that the state of the western culture presently has something to do with there being not as many miracles as in the past. We, in the US have come to consider turning to the medical establishment as the first and most responsible response to problems. Other responses are considered irresponsible. That has the unintended effect of causing us to put more faith in the medical resources available than in our unseen God. And when a health problem can't be fixed be the medical resources our routine of asking and relying on God is not in as good condition as it might otherwise be. The outworking of this dynamic can be that we struggle "not against flesh and blood; but against principalities and powers"- - that we struggle against our own tendency to doubt. That may be what we were seeing when the woman was having so much difficulty walking. She wanted to believe, and wanted to be obedient to what she believed was the Spirit leading her to act on her belief; but she perhaps had a lot of history of disappointment with promises etc.
I agree and would add that much of the discussion on Lourdes is pretty much off topic.
As I said earlier, my point in bringing it up had to do with the rigor to which the alleged miracles are subjected by The Church.
Is there any other group that submits healings to such rigors? And I mean organized, record keeping, multi-tiered, long term follow-up studies???

Peace
James

Apolojedi (Daniel Eaton) said:
Praying to Mary is another topic and really gets us far from whether this was a legit miracle or something else.

Daniel

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