Salvation and Repentence

[Lisa Robinson]

What do you think about this message by Paul Washer?

While I do agree with him that repeating a prayer does not salvation make, I have some reservations about basing assurance that one has genuinely converted on "feeling" like there is a change of heart.

[ScottL]

I think there is a healthy tension to consider. I read Acts and every single person knew they had come to Christ. They weren't left wondering, 'Hmmm, I prayed this prayer, but I'm not sure.' Even those accounts from Luke about those who received the Spirit, they knew they had the third person of the Godhead come into their lives to radically transform them. These people knew. There really didn't seem to be any if's, and's or but's about it. They knew because they experienced the reality.

But I also know that some are on a journey, with no 'all of a sudden' experience. I don't think you have to fall on the ground with shakings and Hallelujahs. Some time we can put too much emphasis on the feelings. We all know this. So we need to be careful of emotional-ism and revival-ism and conversion-ism.

But, I just remember a friend of mine saying this past weekend, one who has been pastoring churches for several decades. He said, 'I experienced salvation and justification before I ever knew (information wise) much about it.' That is reality. We experience the grace of God before we know much about it (cognitively).

Again, I know we don't need to build our whole understanding of the things of God on experience. But I also don't want to build my whole understanding on cognitive understanding of salvation, regeneration, justification, and the whole lot. I'd rather experience the truth than simply know the information.

As a side note, I love that he spoke about repentance and its connection to salvation. A lot of times we only focus on 'believing on Jesus' (which is good, if true belief/faith). But without repentance, we aren't experiencing what God had desired us to experience in being totally saddened by sin.

[Michael Ballai]

I got the impression that we don't understand our salvation until there's something tangible. I think what Washer was driving at was the first signs of sanctification which is still mostly internal but involve a change in attitude. It's rather difficult to put a ruler to measure the movement of one's heart towards God.

[JacksonS]

I think that I know what he is getting at, and has a point, but he takes it too far. This works for a one time message, but you can't live there. IMHO.

[Michael W. Brewer Jr.]

Lisa,

I've watched and listened to numerous extended sermons by Paul Washer dealing with this subject (most of his sermons on this matter are 1 and 1/2 to 2 hours long), and I don't think he is basing conversion on a feeling of change. He is asking is there actual change. Essentially the question is, has my world view of God and sin changed since my conversion?

I agree with Paul in this matter. Upon conversion we are freed from the bondages of sin and death. We can resist that which we had no desire or will to resist. What we found incredibly pleasing and joyful is now detestable. We can love God where we once hated Him prior to the work of regeneration in our lives.

More to the point, Paul is dealing with the modern attitude towards salvation and Christ. The wretched idea that after one repeats some cute prayer, it is done and over with; you're saved, go and sin all the more. He is dealing with the fact that we are marching millions of people straight to Hell because of our dealing with the matter of Salvation and redemption in Christ.

I agree that we should never base assurance of conversion upon a feeling, which is not at all what Paul is espousing. What we should base it upon is the actual change and fruit produced in our lives. How are we different? As John Piper once put it, do we love the brethren as a bird ought to fly, and a fish ought to swim, for it is the who Lord permeates through us. (This is paraphrased of course.)

For a better understanding of Paul Washer's view of the gospel, Salvation, etc. You'll have to see the more extended sermons available. To warn you, you'll have to set aside nearly two hours. (Trust me though, totally worth it!)

Blessings,

Michael

[Leslie Jebaraj]

I agree with everything what ScottL has said except for the one on repentance. In my view, repentance from sin does not save, though that could accompany true trust.