Swooning is for Sissies...Manly Men Worship Manly

[Lisa Robinson]

What do you guys think of this?  Does it take away something from manly character to raise your hands with eyes closed and head held back while worshiping the Lord?

 

While we're on the subject, what did you all think of Tim's piece on Parchment and Pen, The Crazy Worship Lady?

[Tim]

No. I was turning it around and making "poor ignorant things" = females. :D One snide comment deserves another. :D (Thanks God he's not in Char's reach ;) )

Char said:

So you're saying all the men are too smart to listen to Jeremy Camp.

Tim said:

CHAR! You shouldn't talk about females like that. ;)

[Jnorm]

In America we tend to have the opposite problem. We have more men than women, and we tend to attract way more male converts than female. Alot of American women tend to think our worship is way too masculine.  Back when I was Chrismated on April 7th of 2007, we had 17 people chrismated that day in the parish and only 2 of them were women.

David Jensen said:

I think the basic premise that modern "feminine" worship is to blame for less men being involved in the church is questionable. This assumes that men used to be more involved in the church prior. However, due to pride or inability to be part of a community or for some other reason, historically men have been less active in the church. Even from the beginning, a common pagan criticism of Christianity was that it was full of women and slaves. The problem with men is men, not swooning, dancing or any other excuse an undisciplined mind will find to distract itself during worship.

[Char]

And since ignorance is the necessary condition for liking Jeremy Camp, either females are the ones who like Jeremy Camp, or they're not ignorant. Can't really have it two ways there.

Or are you saying they perversely and knowingly revel in their lameness?

Tim said:

No. I was turning it around and making "poor ignorant things" = females. :D One snide comment deserves another. :D (Thanks God he's not in Char's reach ;) )

[Tim]

That would be true IF “poor ignorant things” carried the same connotation that you gave it. But did I say that title had anything to do with Jeremy Camp? ;)  I was reinterpreting to fit my feminology (i.e., systematic feminology).

 

Or are you saying they perversely and knowingly revel in their lameness?

Yes! (especially Canadians). ;)

Char said:

And since ignorance is the necessary condition for liking Jeremy Camp, either females are the ones who like Jeremy Camp, or they're not ignorant. Can't really have it two ways there.

Or are you saying they perversely and knowingly revel in their lameness?

Tim said:

No. I was turning it around and making "poor ignorant things" = females. :D One snide comment deserves another. :D (Thanks God he's not in Char's reach ;) )

[Levi Gray]

: eyes closed, head back, hands limply raised, body swaying…

I'm trying to understand the feminine implications of any of these bodily movements.

Don't get me wrong, I think that the American Church has been emasculated, in fact, American men have been emasculated. There is a huge problem with fatherlessness in our country, and an even bigger problem with men not acting like men. But being a man has nothing to do with holding a sword and grunting like an ape, and yelling and fighting. I've seen a real man on his knees, weeping over the sin of his nation, and I've seen "manly, macho" men fail to do their job as a man, as a father, and as a Christian.

Being a man has nothing to do with body language. Of course, there is certain body language which displays vulgarity and uncleanliness, but aside from those things, this is the true duty of man, and in my opinion, exposes this foolish rhetoric for what it is:

Flee the evil desires of youth and pursue righteousness, faith, love and peace, along with those who call on the Lord out of a pure heart. Don’t have anything to do with foolish and stupid arguments, because you know they produce quarrels. -2 Timothy 2:22

God's will is not limited to a specific set of motions and cliches. No matter how it looks, or how it seems, we should do the right thing.

[Char]

You didn't deny it. And as you answered, you accepted the basic premise-admitting that the lame people who like Jeremy Camp are women. This requires the liking of Jeremy Camp to be lame. 

Plus the premise is axiomatic. You can reinterpret the truth all you like, doesn't make it less true.

Tim said:

That would be true IF “poor ignorant things” carried the same connotation that you gave it. But did I say that title had anything to do with Jeremy Camp? ;)  I was reinterpreting to fit my feminology (i.e., systematic feminology).

[Otsukafan]

I think this article is educational for anyone.  

 

http://www.pravoslavie.ru/english/42390.htm

 

Sample from the article:  

In a time when churches of every description are faced with Vanishing Male Syndrome, men are showing up at Eastern Orthodox churches in numbers that, if not numerically impressive, are proportionately intriguing. This may be the only church which attracts and holds men in numbers equal to women. As Leon Podles wrote in his 1999 book, "The Church Impotent: The Feminization of Christianity," "The Orthodox are the only Christians who write basso profundo church music, or need to." 

Rather than guess why this is, I emailed a hundred Orthodox men, most of whom joined the Church as adults. What do they think makes this church particularly attractive to men? Their responses, below, may spark some ideas for leaders in other churches, who are looking for ways to keep guys in the church.

 

 

[bob johnson]

speaking of ingnorance.....what the heck is chrismated supposed to mean?

[Otsukafan]

It's a receiving of the Holy Spirit through anointing.  It's similar to a Roman Catholic confirmation.

bob johnson said:

speaking of ingnorance.....what the heck is chrismated supposed to mean?

[Tim]

No.  Women are lame all on their own. :-P  Jeremy Camp is not lame.  I am lame, but that has nothing to do with me liking Jeremy Camp's music.  But haters of Jeremy Camp--LAME! :-P

Char said:

You didn't deny it. And as you answered, you accepted the basic premise-admitting that the lame people who like Jeremy Camp are women. This requires the liking of Jeremy Camp to be lame. 

Plus the premise is axiomatic. You can reinterpret the truth all you like, doesn't make it less true.

Tim said:

That would be true IF “poor ignorant things” carried the same connotation that you gave it. But did I say that title had anything to do with Jeremy Camp? ;)  I was reinterpreting to fit my feminology (i.e., systematic feminology).

[Jim Zeirke]

For me it isn't a question of raising hands or even weeping. I've cried in church and I raise my hands in worship all of the time. For me it's about the music. Looking at the ClearNote site I'm kind of longing for the songs of the Old Testament. What passes for contemporary worship music these days is nothing more than sappy love songs; nothing different from what you hear on a soft rock station. Where are the great worship songs that celebrate God as the Mighty Warrior powerful in battle? Where are the songs that celebrated the great victories of our God? I think back to then old hymns such as "A Mighty Fortress", "God Of Our Fathers", "Crown Him Lord Of All". Instead they've been replaced with soft paens to a God who is all sorts of cuddly and never would dream of engaging in a fight.

[Jim Zeirke]

Let me just add that I'm not against modern praise and worship music per se.  What I am against is the modern music that can be distilled down to nothing more than sappy love songs to a God who really doesn't do much other than provide a lap for his kids to crawl up on a cry.  How I wish that someone in the CCM industry would take it upon themselves to start writing songs about a powerful God who avenges wrongs and protects His children.  Give me some songs about the God that we saw in the OT and in Revelations.  Just sayin'!