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There Is No Trinity

It seems to me that the most ardent supporters of strange positions sometimes push things to the extreme thus resulting in the deletion of their threads (or their accounts).

That being the case I plan to argue their case (even though I am vehemently against it) for the purpose of posterity and to sharpen ourselves.

My position in this thread will be the following:

Scripture doesn't teach the Doctrine of the Trinity--it is merely the systemetizing of verses that can just as easily be used to support a Quinitinity. It makes much more sense to believe what Scripture explicitly states or at least make a connection with what Scripture explicitly states of the following two choices neither of which are the Trinity:
1) Behold the Lord your God is One.
2) This man Jesus has been declared both Christ and Lord God

I will not argue for merely one of the positions but for both. My argument in this thread will be this: the teaching of the Trinity is false and needs careful reformulation and expulsion from our teaching of the nature of God.

Have at you.

disclaimer: I don't believe any of this. Its just that some of my best threads dealing against anti-trinitarians have wound up deleted so I plan to have at least one thread that survives. That being the case I will petition the moderators to carefully watch over our actions in this thread.

Tags: trinity

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Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by ScottL on January 6, 2009 at 10:46am: God is five?

Father, Son, Holy Spirit, Wisdom and ....?; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Rey Reynoso on January 6, 2009 at 10:51am: The Word.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by ScottL on January 6, 2009 at 10:53am: Ok, so how is wisdom actually God Himself?

Also, by Word, do you mean Christ the Word or the Scriptures?; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Rey Reynoso on January 6, 2009 at 10:57am: The point of this thread isn't to establish how Wisdom is God: with the same faulty reasoning trinitarians use to establish that a spirit is God it can be employed in that way. Even with more precedence with the writings of pre-NT Jews personifying Wisdom as being in the beginning With God.

It makes more sense to establish from Scripture what it teaches and the ramifications thereof: God is one and He made Jesus both Christ and Lord God.

ScottL said:
Ok, so how is wisdom actually God Himself?

Also, by Word, do you mean Christ the Word or the Scriptures?; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Jason on January 6, 2009 at 11:02am: Rey,
I think I understand your purpose.
I can't help but wonder whom someone resembles when they play "Devil's Advocate." :-)
I look forward to seeing what you put forward.
This should be interesting.
Should we argue as though you are non-trinitarian?; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Rey Reynoso on January 6, 2009 at 11:06am: Totally: in this thread I am a non-Trinitarian.

Jason Skipper said:
Rey,
I think I understand your purpose.
I can't help but wonder whom someone resembles when they play "Devil's Advocate." :-)
I look forward to seeing what you put forward.
This should be interesting.
Should we argue as though you are non-trinitarian?; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by ScottL on January 6, 2009 at 11:13am: Ah, so Jesus, the Christ, was not always God. He was made God.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Rey Reynoso on January 6, 2009 at 11:17am: Not necessarily: I will grant that even if he was always God that still does not equate to a Trinity. Both of these positions strike me as Biblical:

1) Behold the Lord your God is One.
or
2) I and the Father are One

Biblically speaking God is either A God who can make others God (how Samuel became an elohim) or a Biunity (as John 5 establishes). Not a Trinity.

ScottL said:
Ah, so Jesus, the Christ, was not always God. He was made God.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Jason on January 6, 2009 at 11:20am: OK, I'll take the bait.
Let's begin with the presence of the Spirit in Genesis 1:1,2
Who other than God can give life? Job stated that the Spirit gave him life (Job 33.4)
The Spirit of God hath made me, and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life.
The Holy Bible : King James Version. 1995 (electronic ed. of the 1769 edition of the 1611 Authorized Version.) (Job 33:4). Bellingham WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.

Then we have the issue of the Word, The only begotten Son, being present with the Father in the Creation. (Jn 1:1-4,14;Heb 1:1-4)

What is the non-Trinitarian response to this?; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by ScottL on January 6, 2009 at 11:20am: But if Christ was made God, then He really isn't God. He might be a god, like the JW's believe, right?; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Rey Reynoso on January 6, 2009 at 11:25am: An all powerful God should be able to Make a God if He wanted to, even if not at a perfectly equal level. This would explain why Christ submits to the will of the Father, doesn't speak without the Father's say so and so on.

But even if Christ was Always God that would establish them as Two in the Godhead...not Three.

Be that as it may, just because a group believes this doesn't mean they're right or wrong in all area.

ScottL said:
But if Christ was made God, then He really isn't God. He might be a god, like the JW's believe, right?; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by ScottL on January 6, 2009 at 11:25am: Wow, that sounded a lot like RBooth's recent replies on Jason Skipper's blog. But we don't deceive as Christians, so anyway....

It actually can be healthy to argue a side you don't agree with. It helps you understand the other side more. I've seen Rey do it before, and he does it in a healthy way.; ▶ Reply to This