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I have used figures of speech to tell you these things. But the time will come when I will not use figures of speech but will speak to you plainly about the Father. When that day comes you will ask him in my name, and I do not say that I will ask him on your behalf.” (JESUS CHRIST, John 16: 25-26)

3 Questions: 1. WHAT significant difference is there between using figures of speech and speaking plainly about the Father? 2. WHEN did the time come for change from use of figures of speech to speaking plainly about the Father? 3. WHY will Jesus not intercede to God on behalf of those who are his own?

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Some thoughts to get the ball rolling

 

1. Figures of speech were and are used to explain that which cannot be fully comprehended in itself. 

2. To me this speaks of the coming in the Holy Spirit.  The Spirit of Truth who will not speak of His own authority, "but whatever he hears he will speak.....He will glorify me, for he will take what is mine and declare it to you.  All that the Father has is mine; therefore I said that he will take what is mine and declare it to you." John 16: 13-15

3. Because when we come to belief in Christ, we become Children of God.  When we pray as Christ taught us we pray , "Our Father...." and speak directly to God who loves us for believing in His Son, and Our Savior King, Jesus Christ.  Christ's "intercession" becomes unnecessary when one can ask the Father directly.

 

Peace

James

Thanks for getting the ball rolling to gather more ideas! Here are some more which I hope will not overload the ball.

1. Our full comprehension is surely one side of the problem. What about the other, viz.: altruistic/selfless attitude reflected in all of Jesus' verbal expressions and claims? Jesus had earlier taught on the demerits of two kinds of claims in contrast to the superior virtue of works as basis for testimonies (John 5: 31-36; 10: 17-18; 37-38).

2. Is there or is there not in the Scriptures a known and applicable catalytic agent for the coming of the Holy Spirit? (John 16: 5-15; Acts 1: 1-5; 2)

3. At the other extreme, is it not possible (and, therefore, worth investigating) that there is only one divine Person as a reason for the redundancy of Jesus's intercession? (Such unity is certainly intimated in John 8: 21-28.) 

Blessings.

 

JRKH said:

Some thoughts to get the ball rolling

 

1. Figures of speech were and are used to explain that which cannot be fully comprehended in itself. 

2. To me this speaks of the coming in the Holy Spirit.  The Spirit of Truth who will not speak of His own authority, "but whatever he hears he will speak.....He will glorify me, for he will take what is mine and declare it to you.  All that the Father has is mine; therefore I said that he will take what is mine and declare it to you." John 16: 13-15

3. Because when we come to belief in Christ, we become Children of God.  When we pray as Christ taught us we pray , "Our Father...." and speak directly to God who loves us for believing in His Son, and Our Savior King, Jesus Christ.  Christ's "intercession" becomes unnecessary when one can ask the Father directly.

 

Peace

Jame

1. Unless one is familiar with the figure of speech, it requires explanation and is hard to translate across cultures and languages.  And, like an analogy, they often can only go so far.

2. You want the date?  :)  

3. Is this a literal day, or a figure of speech?  Could it be talking about a "time", post-resurrection, when Christ further explained what the disciples failed to grasp earlier and the subsequent indwelling by the Holy Spirit that would take over that role?  Could it be that the "I'm not going to say" phrase doesn't mean "I'm not going to intercede"?

1. The "Father" happens to be a usable figure of speech requiring neither explanation nor translation whatsoever! 

2. I believe the thrice repeated "the time will come", "when that day comes" and "the time is coming and is already here" are, in their common context (John 16: 25-33), indicative enough not only of a specific but imminent date. Aren't they?

3. the meaning of Jesus' words, "you will not ask him in my name and I do no say that I will ask him on your behalf" seems to hang on the specificity and imminence of "that day". Don't they?

May the Lord help us to arrive at the truth! AMEN. 


Apolojedi (Daniel Eaton) said:

1. Unless one is familiar with the figure of speech, it requires explanation and is hard to translate across cultures and languages.  And, like an analogy, they often can only go so far.

2. You want the date?  :)  

3. Is this a literal day, or a figure of speech?  Could it be talking about a "time", post-resurrection, when Christ further explained what the disciples failed to grasp earlier and the subsequent indwelling by the Holy Spirit that would take over that role?  Could it be that the "I'm not going to say" phrase doesn't mean "I'm not going to intercede"?

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