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What do you all think of Christian retail?

I was posed with a question about the 'morality' of selling Christian books, tapes and CD's, etc. Let me know what your thoughts are on:

1. Selling books, tapes, CD's, DVD's, etc. on church premises (e.g., church bookstore)
2. Selling books, tapes, CD's, DVD's, etc. through a Christian retail outfit (whether a 'brick-and-mortar' or online)
3. Should Christian authors, artists, etc. make a 'profit' from their work

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Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Ryan on October 19, 2009 at 3:34pm: Work was created before the Fall.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Rey Reynoso on October 19, 2009 at 3:39pm: 1. Selling books, tapes, CD's, DVD's, etc. on church premises is fine. Would like it even more if there was a library where you can preview the book with some solid reading without messing up the books in the store. Then you can step right across and buy the books, cd's and dvd's. If they're right there at the premises, preselected by the leadership, then you can save believers a ton of time by trying to find something in the bookstore (where they most likely will find garbage).

2. Selling books, tapes, CD's, DVD's, etc. at some other store is fine but I think you just become part of the noise generated by authors trying to find a niche.

3. And yes, Christian artists should profit from their work. I understand that people have learned to un-muzzle oxes while threshing; I don't know why they feel it unnecessary to throw some food at the song-bird.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Carl Gobelman on October 19, 2009 at 3:49pm: Regarding the intent of the question (I don't think I clarified the intent). The questioner was wondering about the morality of selling media regarding God. He felt that is should be given away freely.

Here's a quote from the question:

I used to sell books for my youth pastor at youth rallies and he would get kids riled up for God. And you could tell God was really touching kids through his sermons. They would be motivated to read his books, but then they realized they would have to buy and just would walk away dissapointed. This happened numerous times to me, and as an assistant I really never put two and two together. But I now I truly believe that we should not be using books, sermons, cds or whatever that has God`s name on it for profit. Just like how salvation is free, we should give these materials out for free.

Another quote:

I know you're affiliated with christianbook.com and I think that website should be dismantled. Because they are making a mockery of God in my opinion. If i know a cd or book is going to help someone get closer to God, or help get wisdom for someone to help them with a problem. As a christian who is about the father's business first and foremost. Why would I try to profit off it? Why would I say I'll give you this book if you give me money?

I don't necessarily agree with this viewpoint, but I can sympathize with the notion that it's potentially immoral to sell *anything* on church premises (akin to the merchants on the temple grounds in the gospels).; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Rey Reynoso on October 19, 2009 at 3:59pm: The church is the people. We don't go to a temple, we are a temple. We give money to the things that wind up being supported by companies. Yeah, I figure in the Millennium, people will just publish books (for free) and print them (for free) and "buy" them; but right now we're in a place where business owners are economically vested in the production of materials AND a publishing system that puts more money into what is selling. There's a reason why publishers are now pushing philosophy of religion textbooks or even books on apologetics: there's a market for the things. To not pay for the things winds up telling the companies that the things don't make money.

I guess the author can print them all and purchase all of them and give them away, but why? I like what Piper does on his site by offering the PDF of most of their books for free. That's awesome. But it's also an annoying way to read.

So what the questioner is forgetting is that these books and cd's aren't created in a vacuum. The CD Printer has to eat, as well as his kids. The printer who outputted the insert has to eat, as well as his kids. The Dude who designed the insert, is in debt and needs that check. The truck driver who brings the CD's to different retail stores has to pay for his back problems. The marketers who promote this material (over that material) are awed by the amount X material made so they call attention to it. But that doesn't help Christians so much. As a believer, you should be able to gear shoppers to buy what is in fact helpful and happily buy it knowing that you're not bowing down to Mammon; you're supporting several lives down the way who have produced the thing.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Kim on October 19, 2009 at 4:54pm: I agree with Rey in what he has said here. The person posing the question could always buy the books and give them away. If they feel strongly that Christian books etc. should be free then why not free at the cost of the one objecting rather than the author, printer, editor, publisher etc.

Rey Reynoso said:
The church is the people. We don't go to a temple, we are a temple. We give money to the things that wind up being supported by companies. Yeah, I figure in the Millennium, people will just publish books (for free) and print them (for free) and "buy" them; but right now we're in a place where business owners are economically vested in the production of materials AND a publishing system that puts more money into what is selling. There's a reason why publishers are now pushing philosophy of religion textbooks or even books on apologetics: there's a market for the things. To not pay for the things winds up telling the companies that the things don't make money.

I guess the author can print them all and purchase all of them and give them away, but why? I like what Piper does on his site by offering the PDF of most of their books for free. That's awesome. But it's also an annoying way to read.

So what the questioner is forgetting is that these books and cd's aren't created in a vacuum. The CD Printer has to eat, as well as his kids. The printer who outputted the insert has to eat, as well as his kids. The Dude who designed the insert, is in debt and needs that check. The truck driver who brings the CD's to different retail stores has to pay for his back problems. The marketers who promote this material (over that material) are awed by the amount X material made so they call attention to it. But that doesn't help Christians so much. As a believer, you should be able to gear shoppers to buy what is in fact helpful and happily buy it knowing that you're not bowing down to Mammon; you're supporting several lives down the way who have produced the thing.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Carl Gobelman on October 19, 2009 at 5:24pm: Kim,

That's a good point!

Kim said:
I agree with Rey in what he has said here. The person posing the question could always buy the books and give them away. If they feel strongly that Christian books etc. should be free then why not free at the cost of the one objecting rather than the author, printer, editor, publisher etc.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Harry on October 19, 2009 at 5:35pm: At my church nothing can be sold for the church, not even church suppers to support the church. Only offerings support the church.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Thomas Ham on October 19, 2009 at 6:17pm: We have a church bookstore and it's great. Icons, books, some cd's, prayer ropes, incense, charcoal, censors, lamps, etc. I don't know anywhere else to get these except at some monasteries (closest is 2 1/2 hours away and they're moving 8 hours away). I think it's a great thing to have a church bookstore. (also, our church bookstore is it's own budget and doesn't pull much of a profit... just enough to pay for more books and grow the store, it doesn't pay into our General Fund).

Retailers, I don't mind as much. But, I don't like things like C28 or any of that. That's Christian apparel and nothing Christian about it except for some Bible verses. There are some "large" Orthodox bookstores I know of, but they simply sell lots of icons, lots of books, lots of prayer ropes, etc. and in larger volume than our own Church bookstore.

Should Christian authors, artists (iconographers), etc. make a profit... Yes! Although, many of our authors and artists in the Orthodox church don't pull too large of a profit. Many of our "artists" live in monasteries or are monks/nuns and they don't own anything for themselves, so these profits go to the Monasteries.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Rey Reynoso on October 19, 2009 at 6:25pm: These things, I imagine, wouldn't be sold to support the church financially. These things would be sold to support the church spiritually. It would be like your church selling you Logos works of Luther module and the money going back to Logos who made this thing available.

Harry said:
At my church nothing can be sold for the church, not even church suppers to support the church. Only offerings support the church.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Harry on October 19, 2009 at 6:49pm: We never sell anything, any money needed for spiritual projects would be given through a free will offering.

Rey Reynoso said:
These things, I imagine, wouldn't be sold to support the church financially. These things would be sold to support the church spiritually. It would be like your church selling you Logos works of Luther module and the money going back to Logos who made this thing available.

Harry said:
At my church nothing can be sold for the church, not even church suppers to support the church. Only offerings support the church.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by JL Vaughn on October 19, 2009 at 7:15pm: I went into a Christian Store to buy one. They didn't have any for sale.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Rey Reynoso on October 19, 2009 at 7:16pm: This isn't a Spiritual Project. Let's say the Lutheran Church decided that everyone should have the Lutheran Study Bible. They can go off an buy the Lutheran Study Bible and give it to the congregation--but they still bought the Bibles. They recoup the money (most likely) from your offering. But some of us don't think any of our offering should be used for stuff like that. So instead of taking it from the offering, the leadership decides to purchase the Bibles in the hopes that people realize that and purchase them recouping the money that was spent without taking it from the weekly collection. The leadership knows that the Lutheran Study Bible is helpful (and better than the ESV or the RYRIE study Bibles), they bring them in endorsing the Bibles, and the people buy them. The money just winds up being transactional for the purchase of the Bibles.

Harry said:
We never sell anything, any money needed for spiritual projects would be given through a free will offering.

Rey Reynoso said:
These things, I imagine, wouldn't be sold to support the church financially. These things would be sold to support the church spiritually. It would be like your church selling you Logos works of Luther module and the money going back to Logos who made this thing available.

Harry said:
At my church nothing can be sold for the church, not even church suppers to support the church. Only offerings support the church.; ▶ Reply to This