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OK, Bible fans. The question today is, who do you believe wrote the Bible?

A. God

B. Man

C. God wrote some of it, man the rest.

D. Don't know for sure.

E. ________________________________

Give us some scripture to back up your belief.

Tags: Bible, Opinion

Views: 318

Replies are closed for this discussion.

Replies to This Discussion

Just for the record, I'm pretty extreme in my view of Bible authorship. I believe each and every word was inspired. I believe that God directed the the preservation of his word at every step. And I'll take that a bit further, I even believe God was involved with the selection of what books to include, their order and even the chapter and verse.

Also, as I've stated before, I don't believe God is required to protect his word in every book that man decides to call a bible.  I believe that there are only a few translations around the world that he has preserved. And I always get less than Christian responses when I say that in the English language the NIV is not one of those preserved versions.

Where I'm not a scholar and without any letters of the alphabet following my name, I can read and study, and that's all it really takes. The Holy Spirit does the rest. It makes perfect sense to me that Satan must pervert and corrupt the pure word of God on the Earth in order to carry out his plan to deceive God's children and become like the Most High God.

It's an obvious conspiracy if you just step back and look at the evidence. The first Bible I carried was my great grandfather's KJV. I moved on to the RSV, the Living, and carried and read from the NIV the longest of them all until my eyes were opened to the corruption that is found in the NIV and many other modern books. Almost immediately I became the target of ridicule and hatred. The KJV is a hated Bible because the truth is not corrupted and even though you can still buy copies of it, there is so much spoken against it that most stay away believing men over believing God. That was the first temptation, doubting what God said.

Where I see that most of the fun being poked at the KJV has been friendly, it reveals, however, deeper feelings and possibly motivations. Not accusing anyone here with being in league with intentionally misleading the flock, but read the verses for yourself. Forget the hype for a moment and ponder the impact of missing words and verses. Ponder the motivation for softening sin and the deity of Christ. Ponder who else might be able to step and assume the role of Christ if such things were altered....or else be stick in the mud. I only care that Christians know the truth and protect themselves from being mislead. Satan's target is the very elect. How can you possibly think you can persuade a true Christian of something else without persuading many others to follow the lie? You pastors out there. How seriously are you committed to preventing the enemy, dressed in sheep's clothing, from entering your flock? That wolf walks in with the sheep...what if it's carried in your very arms as one of these modern bibles you preach out of and give to new believers?

It is great that you believe all of that.  But where does the BIBLE ITSELF claim those things, and how do you still maintain some level of super-preservation when the manuscript evidence doesn't support it?  Just where do you get your ideas, Gail Riplinger?

Seraphim, I'm not deluded, I know God's word can be found in other bibles. I'm not under any delusions that God is obligated to preserve every book that contains his word. I haven't arrived at this place by simply reading or listening to KJVO advocates like Riplinger. I've read and studied this for myself. I can't escape the fact that there is a concerted effort to move us to the point where God's word is so diluted that one won't be able to use it to defend the faith. Some already have approached that point.



Bit Brush said:

Just for the record, I'm pretty extreme in my view of Bible authorship.

We've noticed.  ;-)

I believe each and every word was inspired.

I agree that such can at least be inferred from statements in Scripture.

I believe that God directed the the preservation of his word at every step.

What is your Scriptural basis for reaching that far?

And I'll take that a bit further, I even believe God was involved with the selection of what books to include, their order and even the chapter and verse.

What is your Scriptural basis for that conclusion?  And what do you mean by "involved"?  Those things were added centuries after the words themselves were penned.  There is no evidence the original documents even contained punctuation, different cases (capital vs. lower-case), or even spaces between words.

Also, as I've stated before, I don't believe God is required to protect his word in every book that man decides to call a bible.  

Is He "required" to protect His word in SOME cases?  If so, who imposes this requirement on Him.  Whoever it is, THAT is the One we should really be worshiping, since it is clearly Someone greater than God.

I believe that there are only a few translations around the world that he has preserved. And I always get less than Christian responses when I say that in the English language the NIV is not one of those preserved versions.

Where I'm not a scholar and without any letters of the alphabet following my name, I can read and study, and that's all it really takes. The Holy Spirit does the rest.

Is it your contention that those who read and study, but also happen to have a collection of titles before their names and letters after them, but who reach a different conclusion are ipso facto reaching that conclusion APART from the Holy Spirit?

It makes perfect sense to me that Satan must pervert and corrupt the pure word of God on the Earth in order to carry out his plan to deceive God's children and become like the Most High God.

It's an obvious conspiracy if you just step back and look at the evidence. The first Bible I carried was my great grandfather's KJV. I moved on to the RSV, the Living, and carried and read from the NIV the longest of them all until my eyes were opened to the corruption that is found in the NIV and many other modern books. Almost immediately I became the target of ridicule and hatred. The KJV is a hated Bible because the truth is not corrupted and even though you can still buy copies of it, there is so much spoken against it that most stay away believing men over believing God. That was the first temptation, doubting what God said.

Where I see that most of the fun being poked at the KJV has been friendly, it reveals, however, deeper feelings and possibly motivations. Not accusing anyone here with being in league with intentionally misleading the flock, but read the verses for yourself. Forget the hype for a moment and ponder the impact of missing words and verses.

How do you know they are "missing"?  How do you know that the composers of the KJV were not led by deceiving spirits to ADD certain portions to the true words of God?

Ponder the motivation for softening sin and the deity of Christ.

Interesting.  Why does the KJV "remove" Christ's reference to His own deity (I AM) in John 8:24, while the ISV retains it?  Why does the KJV "remove" Christ's reference to His own deity in John 13:19, while the ISV (I AM) and NIV2011 (I AM WHO I AM) retain it?

Ponder who else might be able to step and assume the role of Christ if such things were altered....or else be stick in the mud. I only care that Christians know the truth and protect themselves from being mislead. Satan's target is the very elect. How can you possibly think you can persuade a true Christian of something else without persuading many others to follow the lie? You pastors out there. How seriously are you committed to preventing the enemy, dressed in sheep's clothing, from entering your flock? That wolf walks in with the sheep...what if it's carried in your very arms as one of these modern bibles you preach out of and give to new believers?

OTOH, what if God was "involved" in these new translations just as much as with the KJV or even more?  What if you are the one introducing confusion and obscuring truth?  You may say that your conscience and your studies convince you that you are correct.  What do you say to those who disagree with you, and affirm that THEIR studies and THEIR consciences convince them THEY are correct?


Mr Brush...

You have penned a well written position below.  However there are certain things that I have questions on...In asking these questions, I do not seek confrontation, but clarification....

Bit Brush said:

Just for the record, I'm pretty extreme in my view of Bible authorship. I believe each and every word was inspired. I believe that God directed the the preservation of his word at every step. And I'll take that a bit further, I even believe God was involved with the selection of what books to include, their order and even the chapter and verse.

Also, as I've stated before, I don't believe God is required to protect his word in every book that man decides to call a bible.  I believe that there are only a few translations around the world that he has preserved. And I always get less than Christian responses when I say that in the English language the NIV is not one of those preserved versions.

1) You say above that you believe that God directed the preservation of His word "at every step"... but then you claim That God is not, "required to protect his word in every book that man decides to call a bible". So which is it...Does God protect His word at every step or not?

2) How "involved" do you believe that God was in the selection of the Bible canon, and how do you resolve the fact that there are at least three differing Bible canons - and of these, the KJV is by far the youngest and the smallest. How do you resolve the problem of the fact that the ALL bibles used in Christendom prior, and even into the Reformation era, contained at least 73 books but that the KJV as most commonly published today contains only 66 books and two other books have been shortened?

Where I'm not a scholar and without any letters of the alphabet following my name, I can read and study, and that's all it really takes. The Holy Spirit does the rest. It makes perfect sense to me that Satan must pervert and corrupt the pure word of God on the Earth in order to carry out his plan to deceive God's children and become like the Most High God.


I agree that one need not be a formal Scholar. I too am but a simple Christian. I also agree that satan must do all he can to subvert the word of God in order to mislead...after all, he wouldn't be satan, the evil one, if he did not.
That said, the question that comes to me from the above, is this...How do you know that it is the Holy Spirit that is leading you? How do you test this?

It's an obvious conspiracy if you just step back and look at the evidence. The first Bible I carried was my great grandfather's KJV. I moved on to the RSV, the Living, and carried and read from the NIV the longest of them all until my eyes were opened to the corruption that is found in the NIV and many other modern books. Almost immediately I became the target of ridicule and hatred. The KJV is a hated Bible because the truth is not corrupted and even though you can still buy copies of it, there is so much spoken against it that most stay away believing men over believing God. That was the first temptation, doubting what God said.

Where I see that most of the fun being poked at the KJV has been friendly, it reveals, however, deeper feelings and possibly motivations. Not accusing anyone here with being in league with intentionally misleading the flock, but read the verses for yourself. Forget the hype for a moment and ponder the impact of missing words and verses. Ponder the motivation for softening sin and the deity of Christ. Ponder who else might be able to step and assume the role of Christ if such things were altered....or else be stick in the mud. I only care that Christians know the truth and protect themselves from being mislead. Satan's target is the very elect. How can you possibly think you can persuade a true Christian of something else without persuading many others to follow the lie? You pastors out there. How seriously are you committed to preventing the enemy, dressed in sheep's clothing, from entering your flock? That wolf walks in with the sheep...what if it's carried in your very arms as one of these modern bibles you preach out of and give to new believers?


I am no comparative Bible Scholar, though I have seen and heard and learned much here by being exposed to different translations and interpretations and insights. So - in that I must say that I see advantage in having multiple translations - even if the only thing it does is cause one to ask questions. I also can see how, if a person restricts themselves to only the Bible (for authority) and to only one translation of the bible, this can be a problem.

That said however, one must now confront the problem of resolving disagreements between sincere and well meaning Christians where BOTH sides believe that they are being taught and led by the Holy Spirit in their reading, translation, understanding and preaching....How does one resolve these matters when neither side is knowingly or intentionally embracing or teaching error?
Every discussion of this type will eventually come to this question - and often times, this impasse - how do sincere but disagreeing Christians resolve their difficult differences - differences where at least one of the sides consider the issue important enough to possibly effect the salvation of others?
Scripturally, I found my answer to this (as others here well know even if they do not agree with it). I'm curious to hear your thoughts on these questions that I have raised.

Peace
James

For the following verses to remain true, and they are in present tense, God has to be active in preserving and refining his word.

Proverbs 30:5 "Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him."

Psalm 12:6-7 "The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever."

David and Solomon probably weren't reading originals at this point. They were reading and studying from personal copies...especially when it came to the stone tablets...which were themselves copies of the originals that Moses smashed.

As far as even punctuation and vowels, are you telling me that God is unable to refine his word, even when it says he is refining? Incorrect punctuation can result in incorrect meaning and confusion.

1 Corinthians 14:33 "For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints."

As far as motivation, it is interesting that this statement reads differently from the KJV to the NIV.

2 Corinthians 2:17 "For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ."

Paul had already discovered that there were those changing the word of God in his time. In the NIV it reads "Unlike so many, we do not peddle the word of God for profit." That change helps hide what is actually going on. As far as knowing what is correct and what is missing, the majority of manuscripts include most of what is included in the KJV.

Simple reading and study reveals that IF the KJV was corrupted, it wasn't in Satan's best interest because the "added" verses reinforce and magnify Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior.



Norrin Radd said:

What is your Scriptural basis for reaching that far?

...

How do you know they are "missing"?  How do you know that the composers of the KJV were not led by deceiving spirits to ADD certain portions to the true words of God?
Interesting.  Why does the KJV "remove" Christ's reference to His own deity (I AM) in John 8:24, while the ISV retains it?  Why does the KJV "remove" Christ's reference to His own deity in John 13:19, while the ISV (I AM) and NIV2011 (I AM WHO I AM) retain it?

OTOH, what if God was "involved" in these new translations just as much as with the KJV or even more?  What if you are the one introducing confusion and obscuring truth?  You may say that your conscience and your studies convince you that you are correct.  What do you say to those who disagree with you, and affirm that THEIR studies and THEIR consciences convince them THEY are correct?

James, I too have learned much by being exposed to various Bible translations. It has opened my eyes to possibly the greatest danger that exists.  For it is written:

1 Peter 1:24-25 "For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: but the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.

Yet we also have written:

2 Corinthians 2:17 "For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ."

So God is not going to preserve everything that calls itself the Word of God but we are to be on the lookout for it. We are to be watchers on the lookout. We need to know how to spot the spirit of AC.

Ezekiel 33:4-6 "Then whosoever heareth the sound of the trumpet, and taketh not warning; if the sword come, and take him away, his blood shall be upon his own head. He heard the sound of the trumpet, and took not warning; his blood shall be upon him. But he that taketh warning shall deliver his soul. But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the trumpet, and the people be not warned; if the sword come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand."

1 John 4:2-3 "Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: and every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world."

2 John 1:7 "For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist."

Instead of observing what lies outside the walls, watchmen are sounding the trumpet for what is already in the walls. Some watchmen slumber. Some who hear the warnings will not listen.

Isaiah 56:10 "His watchmen are blind: they are all ignorant, they are all dumb dogs, they cannot bark; sleeping, lying down, loving to slumber."

Jeremiah 6:17 "Also I set watchmen over you, saying, Hearken to the sound of the trumpet. But they said, We will not hearken."

Some who know better are too wrapped up in their knowledge to see the truth anymore.

Romans 1:18-25 "For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

Sadly, this includes the Catholic church and most Christian churches today. The Word of God is being changed. How can truth be known if it changed into a lie? How can we possibly stand on lies? As Daniel tries to beat the drum that the KJV is simply my preferred Bible, is to ignore everything that anybody can discover themselves.

The Word says in the mouth of two or three witnesses let a thing be established. What if the testimony becomes a lie and the unsuspecting person believes the lie? I've stated many examples. There are plenty of researchers online that put their stuff up and debate their findings, yet the KJV stands on its merits and the NIV falls on its errors and the very best one can do in defense of the NIV is to say all translations have errors. If one accepts that argument then the next step is to isolate those errors and determine how significant they are. Do they deny Christ or magnify him? Do they arm a Christian or disarm? Do they confuse or do they agree? My personal study has shown the NIV as the transgressor of taking away from the word. Adding confusion and hiding the truth.

JRKH said:


Mr Brush...

You have penned a well written position below.  However there are certain things that I have questions on...In asking these questions, I do not seek confrontation, but clarification....

1) You say above that you believe that God directed the preservation of His word "at every step"... but then you claim That God is not, "required to protect his word in every book that man decides to call a bible". So which is it...Does God protect His word at every step or not?

2) How "involved" do you believe that God was in the selection of the Bible canon, and how do you resolve the fact that there are at least three differing Bible canons - and of these, the KJV is by far the youngest and the smallest. How do you resolve the problem of the fact that the ALL bibles used in Christendom prior, and even into the Reformation era, contained at least 73 books but that the KJV as most commonly published today contains only 66 books and two other books have been shortened?

I agree that one need not be a formal Scholar. I too am but a simple Christian. I also agree that satan must do all he can to subvert the word of God in order to mislead...after all, he wouldn't be satan, the evil one, if he did not.
That said, the question that comes to me from the above, is this...How do you know that it is the HolySpirit that is leading you? How do you test this?
I am no comparative Bible Scholar, though I have seen and heard and learned much here by being exposed to different translations and interpretations and insights. So - in that I must say that I see advantage in having multiple translations - even if the only thing it does is cause one to ask questions. I also can see how, if a person restricts themselves to only the Bible (for authority) and to only one translation of the bible, this can be a problem.

That said however, one must now confront the problem of resolving disagreements between sincere and well meaning Christians where BOTH sides believe that they are being taught and led by the Holy Spirit in their reading, translation, understanding and preaching....How does one resolve these matters when neither side is knowingly or intentionally embracing or teaching error?
Every discussion of this type will eventually come to this question - and often times, this impasse - how do sincere but disagreeing Christians resolve their difficult differences - differences where at least one of the sides consider the issue important enough to possibly effect the salvation of others?
Scripturally, I found my answer to this (as others here well know even if they do not agree with it). I'm curious to hear your thoughts on these questions that I have raised.

Peace
James

Mr Brush...

A very nice call to arms but, forgive me for saying so, it is a lot of rhetoric but not a lot of answers to the questions I posed. 

How do you know that the spirit guiding you is the Holy Spirit and not another spirit?

How are we, as sincere Christians, to differentiate and discern truth from error when both sides are fulfilling the requirements of 1 john 4:2-3 and both claim to guided by the Holy Spirit?  who or what is the arbiter? 

Since you declare that God has faithfully protected His word, how do you account for the fact that the KJV bible is lacking books that God had previously placed in the bible?  I don't ask this as an attack on the KJV, but as a sincere question about how you discern things. 

Peace

James

Let me see if I have this right.  Proverbs are absolute promises and, if they were true in the present tense back then, they are forced to be true today, and the "words of God" mention are referring to the texts of the Bible.  And since all of those things are true, translators of the Bible are introducing confusion into the pure words of God.  Does that sum it up?  Seriously?  You don't see how many assumptions are made there?

Bit Brush said:

For the following verses to remain true, and they are in present tense, God has to be active in preserving and refining his word.

Proverbs 30:5 "Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him."

Psalm 12:6-7 "The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever."

David and Solomon probably weren't reading originals at this point. They were reading and studying from personal copies...especially when it came to the stone tablets...which were themselves copies of the originals that Moses smashed.

As far as even punctuation and vowels, are you telling me that God is unable to refine his word, even when it says he is refining? Incorrect punctuation can result in incorrect meaning and confusion.

1 Corinthians 14:33 "For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints."

As far as motivation, it is interesting that this statement reads differently from the KJV to the NIV.

2 Corinthians 2:17 "For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ."

Paul had already discovered that there were those changing the word of God in his time. In the NIV it reads "Unlike so many, we do not peddle the word of God for profit." That change helps hide what is actually going on. As far as knowing what is correct and what is missing, the majority of manuscripts include most of what is included in the KJV.

Simple reading and study reveals that IF the KJV was corrupted, it wasn't in Satan's best interest because the "added" verses reinforce and magnify Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior.

No, not right.

One question. How long does God say his word will exist? The present tense lasts at least that long, in my estimation.

I'm going to make some assumptions, so please bear with me.

Seems to me that you probably believe the governments accounts of what happened on 9/11.  Why would the government say something that's not true, you'd probably state. There is a large community that says the evidence doesn't stack up. In fact, there is evidence to support that there is a government cover up. What would be the government's motivation to lie? What if the truth would be too hard for the American people to accept? How might the public react?

Ok, let's look at a real conspiracy. It's real, documented and warned against. What if we were to look at the truths of God and simply look for opposites? Would that possibly reveal where Satan is working? Can that be found in the bibles versions produced over the past 150 years? What would be these producer's motivation to change the word of God? Satan couldn't hope to produce the Bible his way overnight. Like a snake slithering through the tall grass, he sneaks up on you. He works subtly.

What we need is a standard. That didn't work so well for the 9/11 investigation challengers, but a standard, regardless, gives us something to measure against. Well it was hailed as a standard for hundreds of years, but it has been criticized and is no longer taken seriously so like uncoupling the US Dollar from the gold standard we've meandered. My opinion, for now, but I probably do need to start a new thread to preach discuss this.

To get into the church Satan needs a foot hold. I believe he's given access through music, through word of faith, yoga, preaching that is based on current events and not the Bible. And when the Bible is used, it one of these new versions that doesn't give a person enough truth to identify the spirit of Anti-Christ.

Our grandparents knew what they were talking about. I've only barely caught up to them. But they've been marginalized like the KJVO crowd as being old fashioned and not relevant. The old paths are being abandoned. The lion is roaring but few believe it to be Satan and think it's Jesus rocking it out in a worship service.



Daniel said:

Let me see if I have this right.  Proverbs are absolute promises and, if they were true in the present tense back then, they are forced to be true today, and the "words of God" mention are referring to the texts of the Bible.  And since all of those things are true, translators of the Bible are introducing confusion into the pure words of God.  Does that sum it up?  Seriously?  You don't see how many assumptions are made there?

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