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- How would you describe yourself theologically?
- SOTERIOLOGY: I believe in the substitutionary death of Christ, where our sins were imputed unto him and His righteousness was imputed unto us, allowing us to be justified and adopted as His children.
I believe in a life-long process of sanctification, whereby we must be proactive in seeking to applying God's principles of righteous living. I also believe in the security of a believer. Meaning, once one is truly, soundly saved by the blood of Christ, the work cannot be undone neither by acts of commission or omission.
I am neither Hyper-Arminean nor Hyper-Calvanist. My views comprise some of both ideologies. I accept the sovereignty of God. I accept that salvation is a work of God, not man. I do not, however, see in the Bible where anyone is anathema prior to birth.
AUTHORITY OF SCRIPTURE: I believe the Bible to be the inspired word of God. However, I also believe we need to be careful to ensure our hermeneutic is as accurate as humanly possible by using our heads and the best information we have available to view verses in their proper context.
ESCHATOLOGY: I am a pre-millennialist, meaning I believe there will be a rapture followed by a 7-year period of tribulation (3.5 yr tribulation + 3.5 yr great tribulation), which ushers in the triumphant return of Christ. Christ defeats His enemies and establishes a millennial reign on earth. After which, the final battle(s) of Armageddon, final Vanquishing and banishment of satan and his angels. New Heavens and New Earth are Established, for eternity.
COSMOLOGY: I am currently a young-earth creationist, even after obtaining advanced degrees in biological sciences. I believe the creation week was a seven-day period that took place 7 to 10 thousand years ago. Noah's flood, in my view, was a world-wide catastrophic event.
- Who is the greatest theologian in the last 2000 years? (Besides Biblical People!)
- I don't know if I can pick just one...
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John Lennox: Design of the Universe
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Adam Orr's Blog
The Struggle and Pilgrimage of Faith
Thoughts by Adam Orr
8-31-08
In the US, we live in a pluralistic, post-modern culture. As such, we are going to be, and no doubt, we all have been, confronted with ideologies and philosophies of life and faith that would counter the status quo of our personal Christianity if not our national Judaeo-Christian heritage. Many "blindly" adopt the faith of their parents. Still many more, George Barna tells us, are walking away from the Christian faith of their fa… Continue
Posted on September 21, 2008 at 2:00pm —
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Did I misunderstand you to say that you use Ancient Egyptian Creation Myth to interpret Genesis?
That was someone else. Another person claimed it was patterned after Mesopotamian temple dedications. I responded to that that Genesis was the original. It was the pattern the Sumerian and Akkadian cultures used. I'm the person who said that Gen. 1:1-2:4 is probably the oldest written text still in existence. It was written before Gen. 2:5 following and Adam wrote that.
I also agree that studying church history is valuable, but again in my view it is not the authority in itself.
Agreed.
All throughout church history there have been wrong views.
Agreed.
Therefore, we must take this info with a grain of salt.
Agreed. However, their culture was closer to that of the writers than ours. We need to take their understandings seriously, at least as seriously as we take our own.
I too have read that fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail, but John Baumgardner's theory would account for this in his view that the flood was a thermal event as well as a tectonic event. Meaning, mountains would have grown largely during this time.
In otherwords, there were no high mountains before the flood, yet there were high mountains after. So how did the ark get stuck at 16,000 ft on Ararat by this theory?
And it still doesn't explain the origin of highly specialized artic, desert, mountain, etc. species between the flood and the time of Abraham. This is something you know that a global flood view can not answer.
A global flood also can not answer how the descendants of the Nephilim appear in Numbers 13 and Deut. 2.
Accepting theories held by one man that you don't understand is not the way to do science. It is not being wise or discerning.
Start with the science you know. Genetics promotes stasis, the status quo. This is contrary to evolution. Young-Earth creationism claims there was no evolution for the first 2000 years of human history. Then 400 years of hyper-evolution, followed by stasis, no evolution. It doesn't work.
Now that we are finding stretches of DNA code that code 2, 3, and even 4 proteins, this brings the whole concept of a mutation into question. One mutation changes (destroys) up to 4 different genes. Even the very limited form of evolution you believe is warranted is severely constrained.
Anyway, I only mean to state my reservations.
But you have not taken the same care and had the same reservations about what you currently believe.
You question my views. Good. No one you know has ever said what I'm saying. The last book written on the subject was written in the 19th century. You would be a fool not to question my views.
But look at the pedigree of your views. No one ever held them before 1850. A woman who was a Seventh Day Adventist leader had visions.
My views on Genesis come from the careful study of Scripture and the working out of details that most people ignore. Your views on Genesis ultimately come from the semi-coherrant rants of a mystic. Why do you question my views and not hers (yours)?
19 years ago, I was where you are. I'd finished my masters a couple years before. I was introduced to Hugh Ross' view and rejected it. I was challenged to place my own view under the same level of scrutiny that I placed on Ross'.
What I found was young-earth creationism didn't have scripture or science correct. At least Ross had the science right. But because Ross also had Scripture wrong, it has caused him to twist his science.
Real science is hard work. Real hermeneutics is hard work.
Blessings.
My view is based on using Scripture to interpret Scripture. Milton Terry's book Biblical Hermeneutics has been the standard work for this method of hermeneutics for 120 years.
I reject Darby's dispensational hermeneutic. It starts with the assumption that Scripture was written to us, today, in our culture.
I also take very seriously the original context. Scripture meant something to the people it was written to. Young-earth creationism and the standard versions of old-earth creationism all require a modern understanding of the physical world. If any of those views are correct, then no one before 100 years ago could have understood Genesis. Terry made the same point 120 years about the physical creation views circulating then.
Any modern "literal" interpretation has that problem. In addition, every modern literal interpretation misses and ignores significant detail about the events in early Genesis.
For example, the total depth of the flood was 15 cubits. Every translation before 1969 says this plainly. From 1969 on, most translations have ignored the Hebrew and now have Ellen G. White's mistranslation, that the highest mountains were covered by 15 cubits of water.
Your view of Genesis does not match the text, but it is causing translations to be rewritten to match your view. This alone should demonstrate that your view is not as literal as is advertised.
The false modern global flood view will die a violent death. Unfortunately, the faith of a lot of people will die with it. The young-earth creationist organizations have equated their view with the one true gospel, over one half the christians and over one half the non-christians believe this is what Scripture really says.
Blessing.
Sorry, I wasn't trying to be condescending. From my point of view, the first Adam's maturity was a major issue in Genesis 2-3. Therefore, it was also an issue in Genesis 1. You don't feed babies meat (Gen. 1). You don't give children the responsibility to determine what is good and what is evil (Gen. 2). They get those blessings as they grow in wisdom and stature.
Blessings.
--Bryan
Noah's father, Lamech, had 56 years to gather first-hand reports from Adam, about all things since the creation. Whether Noah had a verbal or written records, on the ark, is not stated. In any case, Moses did not need written records, since God was inspiring him. If Moses DID use written records, they could easily have come via Noah. Those who claim that writing began long after Noah Are guessing, and the burden of proof is on them. Keep up the good work. Jack
Flood by dying just prior to the judgement. aside from Schofield's teaching, one might conclude That Meth was include among the ungodly, and died IN the flood. Nothing to argue about, I don't have a conclusion-only a question.
I worked up a "life-span chart" from the book of Genesis, beginning with the creation of Adam to the death of Noah. it comes out that the world wide flood occurred 1656 years after Adams life began. Methusela, The world's oldest person: living 969 years, died the same year as the flood. I wonder if he died IN the flood.
If the numbers indicated that he died after the flood, there would be reason to question whether Genesis used Rough estimates rather than real numbers.
Also, Lamech, Noah's father was 56 years old when Adam died. He could have bounced on Adam's knee for 56 years, listening to Adam's account of everything back to the creation, with nothing added, or lost in translation. Noah died 2006 years after Adam was created. Grace and peace to you. Jack
I started the discussion "evolution-proven fact?"
Jesse, JL, and Kaff have all responded in support of EVolution. You, alone, have entered the frey, with me.
I,m in, over my head, with this genetics issue, and had thought that I would get more support. Thank you, again. Grace and peace to you, Jack
1 Cor 15:45-47 , try these sciptures as well Luke 3:38,
Romans 5:14, 1 Cor 15:22, Jude 1:14.
1Cor 15:45-47 . And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. 46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
Adam isnt an allegory, Hes absolutly real. It sounds like your dealing with Jehovahs Witnesses or something.
God Bless in Christ Jesus RC and the earth was created in 6 literal Days.
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