“Capitalism - Whacha think?”

[Arthur Thompson]

This blog is in response to a topic in the Forum titled “Capitalism - Whacha think?”

First of all it is probably impossible to say that Capitalism is or isn’t Biblical. Capitalism did not come into being until formulated by Adam Smith in his magnum opus An Inquiry into the Nature and Causes of the Wealth of Nations published ironically in 1776. Before that the economic engine of the world was mercantilism. The “classical” economic thought was known as Economic Liberalism. In fact the term Capitalism was probably coined by Marx in the mid-nineteenth century: Yet another irony.

The second thing we need to understand is that our economy today while called Capitalism is not true Capitalism. We operate today in a Mixed Economy. That is Capitalist operate under basic tenets of Capitalism but also under government control and regulation. The problem is it is becoming more like Socialism than Capitalism. The change has been slow but steady for more than sixty years. The issue to be determined in this election is will the change continue at a slow steady pace (McCain) or will it jump to warp-speed (Obama.)

The current economic mess is being blamed on Greedy Wall Street Capitalist. While greed has no doubt played a part (and not only on Wall Street) it is not the only horse in this race. Remember, we have a mixed economy, which means that the hand of government was also involved. The current crisis developed in the Clinton Administration when Democrats controlled the Congress. Their Leftist/Progressive ideology is wholly responsible and there are a number of Republicans (RHINO’s) who collaborated with them.

There is some irony in that Clinton saw what was happening and tried to reign in Congress but they declined. Then too John McCain warned of the impending disaster but Barney Frank, Henry Waxman, Bernie Sanders, Nancy Pelosi, Chuck Schumer and the rest of the usual suspects voted down McCain’s attempt while saying “everything is fine; don’t worry be happy.”

The idea was to make the “American Dream”, home ownership, available to everybody. A noble thought but as with most Democrat ideas it is the “intent” and not the outcome that is important. Consequently the vast majority of their programs fall prey to the law of unintended consequences. What Barney Frank and his cohorts did was turn Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac into insurance underwriters to back home loans for people that had no hope of paying back those loans. It was government regulations (not deregulation) written by Frank and the House Finance Committee that REQUIRED banks to make those loans and told them not to worry, “people pay their mortgages” and if they don’t we will guarantee them. The “we” by the way was not the politicians but the American Taxpayers.

Now bankers are not stupid people, they saw what was coming so the lobbied Congress and Congress responded by ordering Fannie and Freddie to buy these loans, which they did, then they bundled them and sold them to investors (Wall Street) and sweetened the pot by insuring them. That eliminated the risk and the investment banks (which are not at all like your local 1st National) bought them and resold them to investors. Unfortunately some of those investors were your pension funds and 401k’s.

Times got tough and guess what? Those folks that shouldn’t have had mortgages in the first place were unable to pay. The investment banks now had billions of dollars worth of bad paper on their books. Bingo! Crunch time! Crisis! So they did what any prudent financier would do. They went to Congress and said, “Ok, time to pay up.”

So Congress bailed out Fannie and Freddie, so far so good. But when it came time to bail out Lehman Brothers, an investment bank, they balked and the rest as they say is history. Now I realize that the internals of this crisis are more complex. Think of the above as an Executive Summary of the problem.

The politicians knew things were on shaky ground and perhaps could have forestalled the problem by deregulating the mortgage market and fessing up on the guarantees they provided. The problem with that is that they would have had to take responsibility for doling out billions of tax dollars and they are not at all about accepting responsibility for anything bad. So they muddled along until the Stock Market became untenable jumping in only when they could lay off the blame.

Back to the original question; “Is it [Capitalism] helpful and consistent with the kingdom of God? I think the answer is we don’t know. Scripture says that Christ will return and then set up His Kingdom. The Kingdom is not yet here (or we are not yet there depending on your point of view).

God obviously saw a need for government among men as instituted by Mosaic Law based in the Ten Commandments and further stratified in Deuteronomy which means "the second law." It addresses not only how man should relate to God but how he should relate to each other. These laws were in some aspects religious and in other aspects moral tenets for man to live under.
Many Christians believe that once you are Save or Born Again that you are no longer “under the law” and that we are no longer “of this world” and can produce proof texts from Scripture all day long. I have to, at least in part, disagree. As I see it we are “of” the Kingdom of God but we are still “in” this world. Remember that Kingdom is not yet a reality in this world. I don’t think that God would institute governments and laws just for us to ignore. Especially under the governmental system He gave us that allows us to institute (make and change) the laws under which we live rather than have them dictated such as was the case at the time of Christ. I am sure that many of you will irenically show me where I am wrong.

Moreover I would add, in my own feeble attempt at proof texting, Jesus stated flatly:
Matthew 5:17-18 (KJV)
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Jesus was not a Community Organizer. The fact that He wasn’t and didn’t lead the Jews into rebellion against the Romans is primarily the reason they didn’t accept Him as Messiah.

His primary purpose was to provide a sinful people with a means to reconcile with the Father. His Ministry was all about how we are to use His sacrifice. Did he believe that everyone would hear and respond accordingly? No!

Matthew 7:12-14 (KJV)
12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.
13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Harry said: What it boils down to is that we are of the world but not in the world. As a Christian, we have a foot in Heaven and a foot on Earth. We need government and it doesn't necessarily [mean] that it has to be Christian, because God is hidden in government and it is appointed for our good. As long as it doesn't require us to go against God, we are to honor and support government, but wants [once] it requires that, then we can act against the government but be ready to take the consequence for it.

That put it rather succinctly although I disagree with the first two statements. We are very much “in” this world and “of” not in the Kingdom. We are like passengers on a bus; we have a ticket for our final destination but we have not yet arrived and we must go where the bus goes until we are delivered there. The quote from Luther also provided by Harry is very relevant. The bus we are riding passes through some pretty seedy stations and we have to deal with that.

CONCLUSION: Capitalism does not impact the Kingdom of God because it is in this world. Whether or not it will prevail in the Kingdom we don’t know. We can postulate but those assumptions are based on what we “think” the Kingdom of God will be like and that is something we cannot know until we are there.

The question then becomes; “Is it helpful and consistent with this world?” I would have to say, yes, certainly. Capitalism is the only economic system that allows anyone to prosper in relation to their effort while providing prosperity for all in the process. I know it is a cliché but “a rising tide lifts all boats.” It is only when we encounter those on the broad road that things go awry.

[Arthur Thompson]

Continued From Above:

One final thing. If American capitalism is so great/superior as you would have us believe, why, when it came to the crunch, the real acid test, was it the monster rendered so utterly and completely powerless and unable to rectify the problems and conditions it had had helped both foster and create? And why was it that this partially "Socialist" and interventionist response the solution folk turned to across the world in order to help steady the ship? If American capitlsim is the panacea for all ills, then surely it must have answers in times of crisis or it can only be said that it has been judged in the scales and been found badly wanting!

Good question. Why our government took the Socialist approach to solve the current crisis is beyond me. Our two-party political system has morphed almost into a single entity. You can hardly tell the difference.

The truth of the matter is that it was government intervention that caused the problem. There were many that knew crunch time was coming and sounded the alarm, John McCain was one of them.

What has happened here in a few short weeks in October has dramatically changed the US of A and not for the better. I don’t know if we will ever recover now that the genie is out of the bottle. If McCain is elected it will slow the pace, if Obama is elected we will become a nation on the dole.

It doesn’t matter to me personally as I am on the downhill track of life. I fear for my children and grand children. Their life is going to be much different than either they or I ever imagined.

[Arthur Thompson]

Brother Phil

From the looks of your first posting of your reply it seems that you may have been a tad upset with me when you wrote it. I did not mean to send your Blood Pressure through the roof. I hope this post will not add to your consternation, but it probably will.

Of course everyone (even the poor) in the developed world have higher standards of living than the poor in the less developed world, but that is way too simplistic an approach to take. Poverty is also relative within nations economies and the gap between the richest and the poorest has actually widened here in the UK over the past 10-20 years, despite the last decade being presided over by an allegedly centre-left government (who have been far more conservative in their ideology than many conservatives!).

Well, yes economies are relative within nations even as among nations. I was of course speaking from an American perspective because that is what I am most familiar with. If you look at the statistics here I would guess that the gap has widened also, statistically that is. I say that because here when the politicos determine the “gap” they don’t figure in the transfer payments and services the poor receive such as Medicare, food stamps, WIC, housing and welfare. When those are figured in the gap is not so great.

You are not going to like this Arthur my friend, but I am not too sure as you are about all this "Amercia has always had a moral compass mullarkey!" Were you asleep for a while when the Vietnamese were naplamed out of existence.

No, actually I was there in the Nam but my unit was involved with defoliation using Agent Orange, it was known as The Ranch Hands.

All I know is that I was, for the first time in my entire life, ashamed to be both human and British on the "Night of shock and awe" in Baghdad. It may have done in your God's name but certainly wasn't done in mine!

Now you sound like Michelle Obama who has been given every opportunity and then some during her life but still was not “proud of her country” until her husband (who also benefited greatly) became the Democrat nominee for President.

If America had shown the world true moral leadership, it would have targetted the government of Saud Arabia, where most of the passports of the 9/11 pilots and the financial backing came from and still comes from, and which still has the most opperssive Wahhabist regime of any nation anywhere. If ever there was a case of making the convenient and cowardly decision as opposed to the correct and courageous one that was it!

Ok, let’s get something straight here. We did not go into Iraq because they were somehow connected with 9/11. That is a Liberal myth. WMD’s were a concern and they had been used by the government of Iraq on their own people. Chemical and biological weapons in the hands of terrorist and terrorist supporting regimens are unacceptable. Similarly we did not go into Saudi Arabia because the 9/11 pilots were Saudis not to mention that Bin Laden himself is a Saudi. So why Iraq instead of Saudi Arabia:
1) Iraq attacked and invaded Kuwait, you do remember the first Gulf War don’t you?
2) Part of the surrender terms from that war was that Iraq would cease its WMD (mostly chemical) programs and allow inspectors free reign to well… inspect. (And if you think Iraq didn’t have them you might want to ask the Kurds about that)
3) There was also the establishment of no-fly zones that Iraq did not adhere to and shot missiles at coalition aircraft patrolling those zones. (might that be considered an act of war?)
4) Then there is the issue of 14 (or was it 16) UN resolutions that Iraq failed to comply with.
5) The total corruption of the Oil for Food program. And
6) The allowing of al Qaida terrorists camps on Iraqi soil.

Given the above I see no convenient or cowardly decision in taking Hussein down and liberating the Iraqi people from a terrorist regimen.

Also, you talk about the USA of 60 years ago, this was the same USA of the 1950s I take it, of the "moral compass" of racial segregation. Thos who helped swing the moral compass the most were those who were on the side of teh Civil Rights movement, the Rosa Parkdes, Martin Luther Kings of this world surely. I don't think I am wrong when I say that many of the Klu Klux Klan memebrs hiding behind their white hoods were actually respectable church members, even leaders. many of them completely sold out to the virtues of American capitalism!! You may have stopped "tyranny" speading across the world, just that you didn't do that much of a good job of stopping it when it was happening in your own back yard!

Yes I am talking about the 1950’s because that is era I grew up in but I am not sure you want to go there. Yes slavery and then denial of Civil Rights was a big problem for our Nation. The most costly war, in terms of American lives lost, was our Civil War. That ended slavery however; it was another 100 years before the “Dream” was realized. It took us a while but we got there and now a Black man is about to become President. And ironically a former member of the KKK is still serving in the US Senate.
And yes America pulled Europe and the rest of the world’s collective backsides out of the fire, twice; and provided protection for the world throughout the Cold War. Now respecting moral compasses, perhaps you would like to comment on the British treatment of Indians and Pakistanis both in their occupied countries and in the UK itself. And what’s up with the Falklands? A bit Imperialistic I would say. And if you want to go back a few hundred years your treatment of American colonists was not exactly benevolent. So I would not get to far up on a high horse regarding the moral compass of nations.

The point here is not to throw stones at your country. Every country in the world has its own closet full of skeletons. “Let him that is without sin cast the first stone.”

And is there not an argument for saying that American military might is not all it is cracked up to be.

No.

Is that what God truly wants above everything else...or did he not say "Not by might,(military or otherwise) nor by power (political or temporal) ...but by my Spirit says the Lord." For such an allegedly "Chistian" nation Is your defence more in your military might than the might of the Lord

Our defense is in the military might that the LORD has given us. Unlike nations past and present our military has been used for liberation rather than conquest. I think God is OK with that.

[Phil]

This is what my thread should have looked like without the typos!

"How can you say that? Look around my Brother. The “poor” of this country are so above the “poor” of the rest of the world that it is foolish to even attempt a comparison. But you don’t even have to look at the rest of the world. Judge it by comparison of what it was like to be poor in this country 100 years ago. Do you not think that the standard of living for everyone including the poor has risen?"

Of course everyone (even the poor) in the developed world have higher standards of living than the poor in the less developed world, but that is way too simplistic an approach to take. Poverty is also relative within nations economies and the gap between the richest and the poorest has actually widened here in the UK over the past 10-20 years, despite the last decade being presided over by an allegedly centre-left government (who have been far more conservative in their ideology than many conservatives!).

"American style Capitalism has taken a gigantic hit the repercussions of which will soon be felt not only here but around the world. Since the latter half of the Twentieth Century there has been only one thing standing between Liberty and Freedom and tyranny; the United States of America. We were able to do this because we were morally, economically and militarily strong."Our moral compass has been lost, our economy is in crisis and if it fails our military-might will suffer. May God have mercy on us all."


You are not going to like this Arthur my friend, but I am not too sure as you are about all this "Amercia has always had a moral compass mullarkey!" Were you asleep for a while when the Vietnamese were naplamed out of existence. All I know is that I was, for the first time in my entire life, ashamed to be both human and British on the "Night of shock and awe" in Baghdad. It may have done in your God's name but certainly wasn't done in mine! If America had shown the world true moral leadership, it would have targetted the government of Saud Arabia, where most of the passports of the 9/11 pilots and the financial backing came from and still comes from, and which still has the most opperssive Wahhabist regime of any nation anywhere. If ever there was a case of making the convenient and cowardly decision as opposed to the correct and courageous one that was it! Also, you talk about the USA of 60 years ago, this was the same USA of the 1950s I take it, of the "moral compass" of racial segregation. Thos who helped swing the moral compass the most were those who were on the side of teh Civil Rights movement, the Rosa Parkdes, Martin Luther Kings of this world surely. I don't think I am wrong when I say that many of the Klu Klux Klan memebrs hiding behind their white hoods were actually respectable church members, even leaders. many of them completely sold out to the virtues of American capitalism!! You may have stopped "tyranny" speading across the world, just that you didn't do that much of a good job of stopping it when it was happening in your own back yard!

And is there not an argument for saying that American military might is not all it is cracked up to be. Is that what God truly wants above everything else...or did he not say "Not by might,(military or otherwise) nor by power (political or temporal) ...but by my Spirit says the Lord." For such an allegedly "Chistian" nation Is your defence more in your military might than the might of the Lord

One final thing. If American capitalism is so great/superior as you would have us believe, why, when it came to the crunch, the real acid test, was it the monster rendered so utterly and completely powerless and unable to rectify the problems and conditions it had had helped both foster and create? And why was it that this partially "Socialist" and interventionist response the solution folk turned to across the world in order to help steady the ship? If American capitlsim is the panacea for all ills, then surely it must have answers in times of crisis or it can only be said that it has been judged in the scales and been found badly wanting!

"

[Phil]

"How can you say that? Look around my Brother. The “poor” of this country are so above the “poor” of the rest of the world that it is foolish to even attempt a comparison. But you don’t even have to look at the rest of the world. Judge it by comparison of what it was like to be poor in this country 100 years ago. Do you not think that the standard of living for everyone including the poor has risen?"

Of course everyone (even the poor) in the developed world have higher standards of living than the poor in the less developed world, but thatb is way too simplistic an approach to take. Poverty is also relative within nations economies and when the gap between the richest and the poorest has actually widened here in the UK over the past 10-20 years, despite the last decade being presided over by an allegedly centre-left government (who have been far more conservative in their ideology than many conservatives!).

American style Capitalism has taken a gigantic hit the repercussions of which will soon be felt not only here but around the world. Since the latter half of the Twentieth Century there has been only one thing standing between Liberty and Freedom and tyranny; the United States of America. We were able to do this because we were morally, economically and militarily strong.
Our moral compass has been lost, our economy is in crisis and if it fails our military-might will suffer. May God have mercy on us all.

"American style Capitalism has taken a gigantic hit the repercussions of which will soon be felt not only here but around the world. Since the latter half of the Twentieth Century there has been only one thing standing between Liberty and Freedom and tyranny; the United States of America. We were able to do this because we were morally, economically and militarily strong.
Our moral compass has been lost, our economy is in crisis and if it fails our military-might will suffer. May God have mercy on us all. "

You are not going to like this Aerthur my friend, but I am not too sure as you are aboput all this "Amerciaa has always has a moral compass mullarkey!" Were you asleep for a while when the Vietnamese were naplamed out of existence. All I know is that I was, for the first time in my entire life, ashamed to be both human and British on the "Night of shock and awe" in Baghdad. It may have done in your God's name but certainly wasn't done in mine! If America had shown the world true moral leadership, it would have targetted the government of Saud Arabia, where most of the passports of the 9/11 pilots and the financial backing came from and still comes from, and which still has the most opperssive Wahhabist regime of any nation anywhere. If ever there was a case of making the convenient and cowardly decision as opposed to the correct and courageous one that was it! Als, you talk about the USA of 60 years ago, this was the same USA of the 1950s I take it, of the "moral compass" of racial segregation. Thos who helped swing the moral compass the most were those who were on the side of teh Civil Rights movement, the Rosa Parkdes, Martin Luther Kings of this world surely. I don't think I am wrong when I say that many of the Klu Klux Klan memebrs hiding behind their white hoods were actually respectable church memewbrs, even leaders! You may have stopped "tyrany" speading across the world, just that you didn';t do that much of a good job of stopping it when it was happening in your own back yard!

And is there not an argument for saying that American military might is not all it is cracked up to be. Is that what God truly wants above everything else...or did he not say "Not by might,(military or otherwise) nor by power (political or temporal) ...but by my Spirit says the Lord." For such an allegedly "Chistian" nation Is your defence more in your military might than the might of the Lord

One final thing. If American capitalism is so great/superior as you would have us believe, why, when it came to the crunch, the real acid test, was it the monster rendered so utterly and completely powerless and unable to rectify the problems and conditions it had hd helped create. And why was it that this partially Socialist and interventionist response was the solution folk turned to across the world in order to help steady the ship? If American capitlsim is the panacea for all ills, then surely it must have answers in times of crisis or it can only be said that it has been judged in the scales and been found badly wanting!





aMERICAN style capitalism has been largley overdue for a massive hit.

[Arthur Thompson]

My Brother Phil, I knew I could count on you to point out some obvious defects in my post and I appreciate it, I really do.

I made a serious error in the way I posted that. It should have read, "The idea was to make the “American Dream”, home ownership, available even to those that have made no effort on their own to obtain it.” There is a difference between “aspiring” to the dream and having it handed to you with no effort on your part. The dream is available to all if you want to work for it. (Perhaps for not too long now)

Now I don’t know about you but when I went to the bank to buy my home I first had to pass a credit check, then I had to have a down payment and finally I had to prove that I had the income to make the payments. That translates into I had to work at keeping my credit good by paying my bills, I had to work at saving enough to make a down payment and it means that I had to work at my job to continue making enough to make the monthly payments.

Banks were told to make loans to people that did not fit that criteria. In fact a lot of Freddie and Fanny loans were made to people that showed up and had a pulse; no credit check, no down payment, no proof of income.
I don’t know about you but when I play by the rules to obtain my dream I get a tad defensive when government has the temerity and audacity to guarantee that dream for someone who has not. Then when it doesn’t work out for them, the government, who created the problem, uses tax dollars to bail themselves (the politicians, not the people) out of the problem.

I did/do not castigate those who took advantage of the government loans although they should have known that there is no free lunch. I didn’t leave Wall Street out they didn’t have to buy those bundles of crappy loans; but hey, the government guaranteed them. The root cause of this crisis is Liberal Democrat Party ideology. Sadly, the Republican Party has bought into that ideology and for the past four years at least has been trying to out-Liberal the Liberals.

Here is a truth. The Declaration of Independence states “That all men are created equal;” which means that no man should have power or position because of wealth or birthright. It does not mean equality of outcome, only “that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights; that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness..."; the equality to pursue happiness.

Am I the only one who is getting just a bit skeptical and tired of clichés such as "providing prosperity for all"? I just see little evidence of a rampant desire to share this prosperity for all with all, or even to use it to benefit more, if not all, which really would be a radical Kingdom value! All I tend to see is a fervent desire to grasp hold of the prosperity for ourselves and go on seeking more of it!

What you are suggesting is Socialism if you are implying that the government should “share this prosperity.” Just as Obama told Joe “the plumber”; I don’t want to punish you, I just want to spread the wealth around. Say what!
So, if that is what you want then vote for Obama, you will get it… for awhile. However, it won’t last long. The Greedy rich folks have just been taken down a few financial notches. Jobs will soon be lost as they pull back to economize. Then more jobs will be lost until finally we are in a full blown Recession and it may even become bad enough that it will be labeled a Depression. It is happening now. Ford Motor Company is on the skids, its stock is at $2 a share. They have no Capital, jobs will be lost. GM is cutting back, I heard today that one plant is closing a shift and 1,800 jobs will be lost, General Electric’s stock price has been cut in half. “Who is John Galt?”

I remain totally unconvinced that this rising tide has raised all boats, or if so, to paraphrase George Orwell, a some boats have risen significantly higher than others!

How can you say that? Look around my Brother. The “poor” of this country are so above the “poor” of the rest of the world that it is foolish to even attempt a comparison. But you don’t even have to look at the rest of the world. Judge it by comparison of what it was like to be poor in this country 100 years ago. Do you not think that the standard of living for everyone including the poor has risen?

Sixty years ago I lived in a converted one-room school house. No running water, no indoor plumbing and one light fixture hanging over the dining table, a wood stove for cooking and a Franklin pot bellied stove for heat. We had a radio and a hand-cranked RCA Victrola (which now resides in my living room as a reminder of where I came from.) We were poor but not impoverished my dad worked hard to buy (as in bought and paid for, actually owned) that property and convert it into a home.

American style Capitalism has taken a gigantic hit the repercussions of which will soon be felt not only here but around the world. Since the latter half of the Twentieth Century there has been only one thing standing between Liberty and Freedom and tyranny; the United States of America. We were able to do this because we were morally, economically and militarily strong.
Our moral compass has been lost, our economy is in crisis and if it fails our military-might will suffer. May God have mercy on us all.

[Harry]

I don't think that God really cares what ecomonic system that man uses because He will be hidden in that system. Even in the most greedy person as long as that person serving another person. This hat is called the Masks of God. That is not to say that the greedy person will not have to answer to God.

[Phil]

I actually think that currently we have a tremendous opportunity to rethink capitalism at this moment in time. The worst thing we can do is adopt a "let's hope for the best that things will pick up in time" and then carry on as before as if nothing had happened type of approach.

My hunch is that the stockmarket is set for a series of turbulent highs and lows, veering from one day to the next. Also, it became apparent yesterday that whole nations are in trouble and finding it diffcult to shore up their rapidly falling currency.

Maybe this could be a "Babylon moment" and an opportunity to re-appraise our economic worldwide systems.

It's not just Iceland, but now Hungary, Ukraine, Argentina, South Africa and South Korea who are all considering approaching the IMF to help bail them out.

[Chen Yew Lin]

There are the rural & sub-urban poor who don't owe much though they have little and there are the city rich who enjoyed much but all on credit and owed huge debts which takes a long time to pay back.

[Phil]

"Well there's a reason why some of the poorest in our country are still vastly richer than even the middle class in other countries... "

I'm not so sure that is true Rey. I would contend that the middle class in places such as India and even China are now becoming significantly richer in material terms than the poorest people in the USA.

I think we also need to tread cautiously in that poverty is relative to the country where we live. AlthoughI agree the poverty experienced in truly poor countries is at times desperate, there can be a temptation to adopt a "there's people much worse off than you are in the world" approach which I feel is an atempt to brush the problem under the carpet almost as if its a non-issue.

[Chen Yew Lin]

I think that values in God's economy is different from values in capitalism. One of the major flaws of capitalism based on God's kingdom laws is that it sees and uses labour as any other inputs like machinery and finances. This is not in line with love and tend to dehumanise the human being to its utility as a factor of production only and no more.

As we have seen, capitalism had not been successful in American economy in a sense that shareholders are not really in control of many listed companies. Top management and middle management are highly paid and went on further to exploit the power they have over shareholders who on the other hand had become really powerless in our so-call capitalistic societies.

Other values of capitalism not in line with kingdom values are its focus on prosperity. Prosperity is a goal and pursuit of God and idealism or righteousness is not the goal. Just based on this alone it is easy to see that capitalism would not have worked at all even right from the beginning if society and economies had not been undergirded by a lot of good and solid values which were not actually part of capistalistic values. In the kingdom, we just prosper keeping God's values of diligence and righteous dealings. It is a given and I don't think we really had to work any system in order to prosper. If we know how to love our neighbour, provide value for money to customers, include the down trodden and give them a job, the power to create wealth is all there in God's creation, in the seed, in a man doing just a fair day's work.

In the early days of capitalism when we did not have enough space in time to educate our populace fast enough we see rebellion and the emergence of communism. Then as we educate more can fit in to city life and I see all these good efforts to build societies, communities and even governmental systems as socialistic and not capitalistic values. So, what do I think about capitalism? Greed (selfishness) is idolatry and Babylon will be judged.