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Propositional Truth = Inevitable Truth

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Comment by Scott on May 9, 2012 at 6:37am: Propositional truth is good. The problem, or some problems, arise when we equate a particular propositions with absolute objective truth and disvalue subjective truth as less-than truth. Both, I believe, have failed to engage with the reality that [God] has given to us. I share more here.

Comment by Jason on May 9, 2012 at 10:08am: I find it sad that you believe this. Truth is not in the eye of the beholder. God is true. God is truth. There is no truth apart from Him. To make truth subjective is to make it relative and to descend into irrationality.

Comment by Scott on May 9, 2012 at 11:07am: Jason -

Of course God is true. So is Scripture. But subjective truth, which actually Scripture does hold, can be just as powerful as objective truth. When God accommodated to human beings, using human beings to make himself known, he stepped into our realm. Every single human is subjective. No? Does God bypass human, take over them to make sure only objective stuff comes out on paper, or out of our mouths? God is absolute. Scripture is not. It is a intermediary given to us by God through his human partners. This is not as bad as our epistemological presuppositions might lead us to believe. I can point you to solid reformed evangelicals who agree with this. :D Ever heard of Jamie Smith?

Comment by Jason on May 9, 2012 at 11:34am: God did not have to bypass humans to give His truth in objective form. God does not make truth subject to me, my feelings, my whims, or my thoughts. He expressly declared that His thoughts are higher than ours. That means solid, reformed evangelicals go the wrong way when they embrace subjectivity.

Comment by Scott on May 9, 2012 at 11:41am: Jason -

I feel you are conflating some of the issues. We need to separate them out so they don't get so meshed together.

I never said God makes his truth subject to me, though he uses humans to communicate his truth and revelation. Rather, in accommodating, his revelation comes in a sort of subjective form. Again, this is not bad, though we think it must be. Matthew and Mark and Luke and John must, in some form, have given God's revelation in a subjective form, or I suppose we would have had absolutely objective accounts lining up. But God was pleased that these 4 friends of ours emphasised different aspects, all to his glory, but in line with the personality and character he gave them.

He expressly declared that His thoughts are higher than ours.

Very much so. Thus, he accommodated by giving us non-God talk in his revelation. God-talk and we would be like, 'Huh?' But in accommodating, we can grasp it.

Again, subjective is not bad. Your love of your wife is subjective. But it does not negate the truthfulness, faithfulness and beauty of your love for her. We disvalue and despise the word subjective. It's not bad. God, the absolute, was pleased to make himself known through subjective and non-absolute humans. It's beautiful.

Blessings to you. I am off now.

Comment by Jason on May 9, 2012 at 9:00pm: ScottL,

I do understand what you're saying a little better, and feel badly about misunderstanding somewhat.

That being said, I think you're not using the word "subjective" correctly. It is not that the truth becomes subjective; it is that truth becomes analogical. The truths we speak about God are analogous in that they do not present God fully. What they say, however, is said objectively. The truths God presents, though analogous truths, are yet objective truths. Those truths don't have their basis in me, or in my thoughts as the subject; they have their basis in God as the object.

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